[Free]

Hi,

Since a while now I play MOSCITO, and that system uses 2 kinds of tools to investigate slam:
1) asks for slampoints (A=3, K=2, Q=1, stiff K or Q=0), followed by denial cuebids. This is used the most, and is quite accurate. However finding stiff K's or Q's is impossible.
2) low level RKC followed by CAB's and TAB's. This can find the stiff K's and Q's, but it's less accurate as denial cuebids. That's why it's used less than previous method.

I was wondering if there are other methods to investigate slam, after you've shown EXACT shape (usually at 3-level)? And also, what their accuracy is. I've seen for example that Viking Club uses CRASH relays, some use Spiral scan instead of denial cuebids,...

Can you plz give me more information about slam investigation methods, how they work exactly, and how accurate they are? Tnx!

Free

[the hog]

You have a number of methods Frederick - and playing Moscito you can play all three.
Justin and I played:
AKQ controls - we called them control points
AK controls only
RKCB
1 step =AKQ
2 steps = AK
3 steps = KC

Of course this excludes the 4D end signal and 3NT.

After these you step into dcbs. We had a method to show stiff Ks

[inquiry]

Ok.. i will share one with you that I used many years ago. I played something we termed Jumping Jacoby, where starting at 2NT through 3H response to 1NT were all transfers, the transfers to a major was game force, to the minor was signoff or game force if responder bid again. Invintational hands went through an artifiical 2D or stayman.

OVer a transfer in the major, opener would count his cover cards (including the queen in the tranfer suit).. cover cards where the four ACES, and the KQ of the transfer suit.

With four cover carrds, opener would bid cheapest side suit ace rather than complete the transfer, with 1-2 cover cards and fit, opener would jump to 4 of the agreed suit. With 5 cover cards (the rare AAAKQ), opener would jump to 4NT, without a fit and 4 cover cards, opener would bid 3NT. Otherwise opener would complete the transfer (which promised 3 cover cards or no fit).

Anyway, with this, once a fit was found, the trump queen often became a liablity in determing grand slam or not, so I played reverse josephine. Where 6 of the suit below the agreed trump suit asked opener to bid grand slam if among his cover cards, he did not include the trump queen... this was very effective in this artificial system. This can work anytime you are using cover card type concept (romex raising structure and the like), and you have way too many turmps but the trump queen would have been counted in an earlier response. Currently I am not playing this reverse josepehine in any of the bidding systems I am using, but it worked very well for me a few times.

Ben

[hrothgar]

From my perspective, it should be relatively easy to measure the efficiency of the different types of scanning structures that are used after shape has been determined. I'm somewhat surprised that no-one has bothered to do so.

Sadly, there always seems to be something more interesting to do whenever I think about trying to solve this one... Sigh.

[ArcLight]

Free,

Ron Klinger has a book called CUE BIDDING TO SLAMS and in the later section discusses relay cue bids and denial cue bids. Since you know the exact shape you will probably be aware of what suits you are concerned about. His cue bidding ideas may be useful. If you have not read the book you might want to scan through it.