[straube]

Partner opens a Precision (could be light) 1H and next hand overcalls 1S. All vul imps.

Your hand is x KJx QTxxxx Kxx.

Is this a 2H, 2S or 3D (fit showing jump) hand?

[mike777]

Many posters talk about fit jumps but they seem ill defined.
If nothing else hopefully your post will define them.

If this is 3d so be it.....


Never playing fit jumps I bid 2h.

[flytoox]

Even playing fit showing ,this one does not qualify.

Two conditions for fitshowing raise:

1, 4 card trump support.
2, Good side suit, QTxxxx is far from good. IF change Ck to DK, I probably will compromise.

I will just bid 2H with this hand, and compete to 3 level if necessary; if pd invites of course i will be glad to accept.

[mike777]

flytoox, on 2010-November-04, 01:29, said:

Even playing fit showing ,this one does not qualify.

Two conditions for fitshowing raise:

1, 4 card trump support.
2, Good side suit, QTxxxx is far from good. IF change Ck to DK, I probably will compromise.

I will just bid 2H with this hand, and compete to 3 level if necessary; if pd invites of course i will be glad to accept.

so you define fit jumps:

1) 4 card support
2) good side suit jump....


so a fit jump here is not even close....not close.

[flytoox]

for me, the jump suit shld not be worse than KJTxx. This hand just has too many flaws: short trmp, bad side suit, high card in other suit...

[655321]

I like to bid 4♥ on these hands opposite a limited opener. Even if you don't like that you need to invite in some way, raising to just 2♥ is pretty pathetic.

[straube]

655321, on 2010-November-04, 03:10, said:

I like to bid 4♥ on these hands opposite a limited opener. Even if you don't like that you need to invite in some way, raising to just 2♥ is pretty pathetic.

It does seem pathetic, but lacking that fourth trump makes a huge difference on the chances that we're able to set up diamonds or ruff spades. With a hand like this, I think we know we're going to be outbid and what really can we do? The hand just isn't that good for either offense or defense. Bidding 4H makes them guess (likely goads them into 4S, making or not), but is a real overbid. Bidding 3D is likely to get partner to make the wrong 5-level decision.

[Cascade]

2♥ but close to 2♠.

[Phil]

Meh, 4♥ is a good shot, but I think you need to be somewhat choosy with this action. I'm not thrilled pushing them into a game they would not otherwise bid, and I don't like a responsive double by LHO.

This looks like a constructive raise to me. Transfers over 1♥ - (1♠ - please?

[straube]

Phil, on 2010-November-04, 14:00, said:

Meh, 4♥ is a good shot, but I think you need to be somewhat choosy with this action. I'm not thrilled pushing them into a game they would not otherwise bid, and I don't like a responsive double by LHO.

This looks like a constructive raise to me. Transfers over 1♥ - (1♠ - please?

I like the idea of transfers over 1H (1S). Using dbl as both minors means we can't use dbl to show a lot of other nondescript hands.

[benlessard]

2H is a joke, easy 3D fit jump, or at least 2S. Those who have high requisite for fit jumps, what can go wrong here since your ruffing with the short hand ?]

Quote

raising to just 2♥ is pretty pathetic.

agree 100%

[Siegmund]

2S limit+ for me.

My fit-jumps do not require 4-card support but do require two of the top three in the side suit, so opener has a simple yes/no decision whether he can peel the side suit for 5 extra tricks. I at least understand 3D. 2H is a pretty bad underbid.

[straube]

benlessard, on 2010-November-04, 15:22, said:

2H is a joke, easy 3D fit jump, or at least 2S. Those who have high requisite for fit jumps, what can go wrong here since your ruffing with the short hand ?]

agree 100%

I think the idea behind FSJs are that you are hoping not to have to ruff (at least more than one time) with the short hand. The idea is to advertise a side suit that can be able to take tricks. If the partnership plays mini-splinters, these bids paint a picture of a hand that may be best used by ruffing losers.

[Zelandakh]

straube, on 2010-November-04, 14:50, said:

I like the idea of transfers over 1H (1S). Using dbl as both minors means we can't use dbl to show a lot of other nondescript hands.

Double as minors? I would have thought most play 1H - (1S) - X as either support (Hx in hearts) or Rosenkranz style (xxx in hearts). For what it is worth I do not mind 3D, 4H, 2S or 2NT here - it is just a matter of agreeing with partner the limits for these bids and judging accordingly. There are advantages to having higher suit quality requirements for FJs, also stronger defensive requirements for a cue or 2NT raise. But when you do that then it is best to go all in when you have this kind of hand. Thus there are also advantages to reducing those requirements too. It does not really matter so long as you and partner are both on the same wavelength.

[Free]

Fit jumping on QTxxxx and only 3 card support is LOL

[benlessard]

For me, the goal of a fit jump is to help partner compete or bid light games, at the 4 level it help partner bid 5 over 4 but at the 3 level it help partner bid 4 over 3 so the requirement are simply lower. Lets just say opps raise to 3S do you prefer have showned your diamond suit (even if it crippled) yes or no ?

Partner may have hands with D fit where competing to 4H or even 5H is correct without the fit jump partner will be in the dark.

[straube]

Ed Mansfield wrote a description of FSJs for Bridge World years ago.

Playing FSJs, 1H (1S) 3H was a mixed raise. Four trump and a mixture of offense and defense. That handled most of the hands that lacked the requirements for a FSJ (typically 4 trump and 5 of suit headed by 2 of 3 top honors (or something approaching that)). If you had the preemptive hand, you decided between a simple raise or four or even pass.

Now a lot of people who play FSJs use 1H (1S) 3H as weak and they consequently resort to finding other bids for their mixed raise hands. They make overbids (2S) or make FSJs with poor side suits.

Playing FSJs one needs to keep the mixed raise.

Even so, on this hand one is a bit stitched because it lacks the fourth trump for a mixed raise, doesn't have the offense or defense associated with a cue bid and has a poor suit for a fsj.

I still like 2H, but if I were tempted to do more I think I'd pick 3H as a mixed raise.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

Definitely a 2S! limit raise.

[MrAce]

TWO4BRIDGE, on 2010-November-05, 16:04, said:

Definitely a 2S! limit raise.

Ditto, i also bid 2♠