[Zelandakh]

mikeh, on 2010-November-05, 08:05, said:

and 5♠ by you would show one? lol....you are in a universe of one on this answer

Denial cue bids are perfectly sound and actually make many auctions simpler. For example, you never need Last Train and bidding 5M tends to carry only a natural meaning.

[mikeh]

Zelandakh, on 2010-November-05, 16:34, said:

Denial cue bids are perfectly sound and actually make many auctions simpler. For example, you never need Last Train and bidding 5M tends to carry only a natural meaning.

I have played denial cuebidding, and don't understand your point.

hog said that over 5♠, a 5N response would promise 1st round diamond control and I lol'd that...and still do. Since 5♠ commits to slam opposite a diamond control it should permit 6N when the hands are Kx opposite xx, with 12 winners on the side (imagine AKxx KQJ10x xx AK...opposite Q10xxx Ax Kxx Qxx....the only making slam is 6N by partner....how do you bid it, while allowing for 6♠ when the advancer has Q10xxx Axx Kx Qxx?

A hint: you want notrump to be bid by the 2nd round control of diamonds, not xx.

Now, maybe I misunderstood his post...or you did?

[mtvesuvius]

dake50, on 2010-November-05, 12:01, said:

As I respond to 3-level T/O Dbl, partner seeing game -- he did jump 4S --
always cues 1st control, 2nd if 4+controls (controls rich).
He did not. I quit.

Excuse me? Partner is supposed to cuebid a natural call? Fun.

[Cyberyeti]

rduran1216, on 2010-November-05, 11:07, said:

seriously, is suspect this hand is in the bridge encyclopedia under 5S for this type of auction.

Interesting point, we would use 5♠ as "I'm happy about the side suits, how good are your trumps?".

Is 4N blackwood here ? what do you do with a 1444 21 count if it is ?

[Fluffy]

Cyberyeti, on 2010-November-06, 06:02, said:

Interesting point, we would use 5♠ as "I'm happy about the side suits, how good are your trumps?".

Is 4N blackwood here ? what do you do with a 1444 21 count if it is ?

4N is blackwood. When your hand suggests to play 3NT you bid 3NT not double.

[Zelandakh]

mikeh, on 2010-November-05, 16:46, said:

I have played denial cuebidding, and don't understand your point.

hog said that over 5♠, a 5N response would promise 1st round diamond control and I lol'd that...and still do. Since 5♠ commits to slam opposite a diamond control it should permit 6N when the hands are Kx opposite xx, with 12 winners on the side (imagine AKxx KQJ10x xx AK...opposite Q10xxx Ax Kxx Qxx....the only making slam is 6N by partner....how do you bid it, while allowing for 6♠ when the advancer has Q10xxx Axx Kx Qxx?

A hint: you want notrump to be bid by the 2nd round control of diamonds, not xx.

Now, maybe I misunderstood his post...or you did?

The Hog actually wrote "5D asking for a D control for me!" and it was your response to this, where you sounded incredulous that 5S might show a diamond control, that I answered. I am not sure about your statement about 1st round control. Perhaps I have some filter set but I do not see such a message from The Hog in this thread. All my message points out is that using cue bids to ask for controls is perfectly sound. I stand by my comment that this style of cue bidding is much simpler in practise for many players, especially beginners and intermediates.

[nige1]

lesh, on 2010-November-03, 14:33, said:

You hold as West AKxx KQJx xx AKx
All vul, North deals,
North Partner South you
p p 3di DBL
p 4sp p ?
What do you bid and what does it mean.

IMO 5♠ = 10, 4N = 9, 6♠ = 6, _P = 4, 5♣ = 2.
5♠ asks about ♦ control. I think partner probably has diamond control and 4N may facilitate getting us to a grand if he has a couple of aces, Arguably, after partner's jump to 4♠, 5♣ could be a cue-bid but I fear that partner may treat it as natural or showing the round suits.

[Siegmund]

One more vote for 5S expressing concern about 2 fast diamond losers. (And if partner has Kxx in diamonds, he should refuse the invitation unless he wants to play 6NT, because he knows ace-and-a-ruff can nail him.) Second choice is a timid 4S. I think 4S is only a modest underbid, while 4NT asks the wrong question and insisting on slam quite a rabid overbid.

[the hog]

mikeh, on 2010-November-05, 08:05, said:

and 5♠ by you would show one? lol....you are in a universe of one on this answer

I prefer my methods here, lol even louder. 5D asks for a D control, 5H says no, 5S says 2nd 5NT says first.
For me 5S asks about the trump quality.
By the way, hardly a "universe of one" as I have played this will all partners, as it is not even my idea. The original idea, I believe, is that of Paul Lavings. (I assume you have heard of him).