[twcho]

After the closing of the Philadelphia World Championship, Diamond team has won convincingly in the Rosenblum and so does Levin-Weinstein in the open pair.

The question I would like to ask: Who do you consider currently the world best pair?

[cherdano]

Meckwell, I don't think it's close.

[chasetb]

cherdano, on 2010-November-01, 22:13, said:

Meckwell, I don't think it's close.

I can't disagree more. Weinstein-Levin won the Cavendish, qualified as USA 1 on the Fleisher team, and won the pairs in Philly. NOBODY is hotter than they are right now, and that's what matters. Now if you want to say the past 5 or 10 years, I will agree that Meckwell is probably #1.

[the hog]

I would have chosen Meckwell, but....

Richard Pavlicek produced a list of statistics showing that:

Greco Hampson are the best performing pair this year. (Weinstein and Levin are 9th).

Helgemo and Helness are the best performing pair over the last 5 years (Meckwell are 6th)

Balicki Zmudsinski are the best performing pair on the world scene over the last 10 years (Meckwell are 7th)

[mike777]

the hog, on 2010-November-01, 23:10, said:

I would have chosen Meckwell, but....

Richard Pavlicek produced a list of statistics showing that:

Greco Hampson are the best performing pair this year. (Weinstein and Levin are 9th).

Helgemo and Helness are the best performing pair over the last 5 years (Meckwell are 6th)

Balicki Zmudsinski are the best performing pair on the world scene over the last 10 years (Meckwell are 7th)

link?


logic?




in any event did the poster agree or not?

[the hog]

Mike, it wouldn't have take you long to find this for yourself, however just for you:
http://www.rpbridge.net/rpme.htm#04

"in any event did the poster agree or not?"
I have NO idea what you mean by this question.

[mgoetze]

Mr. Pavlicek's statistics are interesting but I don't believe that they provide an objective picture.

My vote is Meckwell at IMPs and Fantunes at MPs.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

My first guess would also have been Meckwell, but I dont claim to follow the
international scene very closely.

Second - Pavlicek was monitoring the world championships, and which team / pair
was usually part of the matches, finals / semifinals: Meckwell, which is not very
suprising, since Hamman / Soloway, Meckwells teammates, also shop up in top ten /
twenty.

Basically Pavliceks statistics is ok, but most likely you need to add. analysis to
get a better picture.

And Pavlicek was measuring against the Par score, which is nice, and objective, but
in praxis the par score is of less interest, of more interest, if you survive the
relevant round.

And finally - it may well be, that after Soloways dead the Meckwell (and the whole
Nickel team) have lost something, which may have helped them to get going, I heard
(here on the forum), that Soloway was not only a great player, he was also helping the
team spirit, one of the biggest assets of the Nickel team.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[helene_t]

the hog, on 2010-November-02, 00:19, said:

http://www.rpbridge.net/rpme.htm#04

You have to follow the links under "major events stats". For example
http://www.rpbridge.net/9y15.htm

If I understand it correctly this is based on statistics from the vugraph archive which could be a biased sample (not that I can immediately see any reason to suspect a particular bias).

[mikeh]

helene_t, on 2010-November-02, 07:53, said:

You have to follow the links under "major events stats". For example
http://www.rpbridge.net/9y15.htm

If I understand it correctly this is based on statistics from the vugraph archive which could be a biased sample (not that I can immediately see any reason to suspect a particular bias).

what I found most remarkable about those stats was the comparison between Meckstroth and Rodwell. Meckstroth has a surprisingly low rating for contracts made as declarer....far below the rest of the players in the top part of the ratings, and his team was usually losing imps when he declared...while having Rodwell declare was worth a LOT of imps.

I don't think this can be entirely related to small sample size: I am no statistician, as anyone who has followed my posts will know, but it seems to me that 443 hands (I think it was) is probably a big enough sample to allow some meaningful inferences to be drawn.

If I'm wrong, and I wouldn't be surprised to be wrong, maybe one of the statistically inclined can point it out.

[paulg]

helene_t, on 2010-November-02, 07:53, said:

You have to follow the links under "major events stats". For example
http://www.rpbridge.net/9y15.htm

If I understand it correctly this is based on statistics from the vugraph archive which could be a biased sample (not that I can immediately see any reason to suspect a particular bias).

The sample is bias in the sense that the vugraph records come mainly from the final rounds of the major competitions. In that context the results are more significant, as it represents performance against the better players and not the numpties who only play the first couple of rounds of things like the Spingold.

Although comparing against par can lead to some silly individual comparisons, when you are looking at a few thousand hands then you'd think that they should average out.

[Phil]

I'm too lazy too look it up (sorry Ron), but on Pavco's site, he also had the IMP averages of the top pairs for the top events worldwide, which included the Spingold, Vanderbilt and BB (maybe the EC's too). Duboin was 1st and 2nd with his partnerships with Sementa and Bocchi (I think).

[awm]

It certainly seems that the best pair at IMPs could be different from the best pair at MPs. Further, it's even possible that the best pair at IMP teams is different from the best pair at IMP pairs (perhaps because some pairs wear down their opponents more than others in various ways, which is an advantage in a long team match but doesn't help you at pairs). Pavlicek's rankings count only the major team events, so can only be used to pick the best "IMP teams" pair.

I'd rate Meckstroth-Rodwell as the best IMP teams pair over the last decade or so; certainly they have been most successful. But there is less data to support them being the best at other forms of the game (and in fact there are reasons to believe that their style is better tuned to IMP teams than other formats). Given their success in top-flight pairs events (like the world open pairs and cavendish) I'd rate Levin-Weinstein as best overall. They are no slouch at IMP teams either! I'd put Fantoni-Nunes 2nd under similar reasoning.

[gwnn]

Fred of course.

[Venom]

What is the point of this post/ survey.

Which of the above-mentioned pairs are you going to say "no, thank you" to if asked to be part of their team?
Seems to me that there are a few women who might be added to the list.

DHL/ DON aka Double !

[NickRW]

I'd be more interested in hearing the opinions of someone like Fred - as in who would he pick as the other two pairs to be on his dream team - today - not 10 years ago - money and other side considerations no object.

I doubt, however, that Fred will answer - being the gentleman that he is.

Nick

[fred]

NickRW, on 2010-November-02, 16:49, said:

I'd be more interested in hearing the opinions of someone like Fred - as in who would he pick as the other two pairs to be on his dream team - today - not 10 years ago - money and other side considerations no object.

I doubt, however, that Fred will answer - being the gentleman that he is.

Nick

Your question makes a lot more sense to me than the poll question

But in all seriousness, I really couldn't be happier than I am right now with my current teammates (Hampson-Greco and Platnick-Diamond). This is not only because both of these pairs have been playing great over an extended period of time (and that we have been winning!), but also because it is important for me to like my teammates. The players on my team are all part of the same (bridge) generation as me. We played with and against each other as Juniors roughly 20 years ago, won our first major events together, and we have also enjoyed many good times together away from the bridge table. They are all my friends and some of them have been my friends since my earliest years as a bridge player.

In terms of the poll question, to me the only rational way to decide who is "best" is based on who has won the most. According to this standard, in 2010 the Diamond team is the best team in the world and Levin-Weinstein are the best pair in the world. If you consider the past 30 years or so (or decide to consider all of bridge history), I suspect that Meckstroth-Rodwell are basically in a class by themselves (and, taking all of history into account, the same could be said for the Italian Blue Team and for Bob Hamman as an individual).

IMO it is possible to (subjectively) rank various pairs according to things like "hardest to play against" (easily Meckwell), "make fewest dumb mistakes" (in my experience Helgemo-Helness and Balicki-Zmudzinski are both notable in this regard), and "best developed partnership" (Levin-Weinstein and Lauria-Versace are among those who have impressed me in this area).

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com

[NickRW]

A gentleman's answer. Thank you.