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Partner hit me big-time. Now what? Responder's rebid playing 2/1 with Wk NT

Poll: What is your rebid with responder's hand. (29 member(s) have cast votes)

What is your rebid with responder's hand.

  1. pass (1 votes [3.45%])

    Percentage of vote: 3.45%

  2. 2 D's (1 votes [3.45%])

    Percentage of vote: 3.45%

  3. 2 H's (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  4. 2 S's (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  5. 2 NT 3 C's (7 votes [24.14%])

    Percentage of vote: 24.14%

  6. 3 D's (1 votes [3.45%])

    Percentage of vote: 3.45%

  7. 3 H's (1 votes [3.45%])

    Percentage of vote: 3.45%

  8. 3 S's (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  9. 3 NT 4 C's (10 votes [34.48%])

    Percentage of vote: 34.48%

  10. 4 D's (1 votes [3.45%])

    Percentage of vote: 3.45%

  11. 4 H's (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  12. (2 votes [6.90%])

    Percentage of vote: 6.90%

  13. Other: please specify (5 votes [17.24%])

    Percentage of vote: 17.24%

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#1 User is offline   Double ! 

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Posted 2010-October-18, 13:10

Format: BBO MBC Imp Pairs
Opps: not bad, both claim to be experts- i don't dispute their claims.
Vulnerabiity: Both White

Your hand: ♠: VOID, ♥: AJ4, ♦: KT96, ♣: QT9543 (Spot cards are correct)

Opponents Pass throughout. You are playing BBO adv 2/1 with Wk NTs
Bidding: Partner deals and bids 1 spade, You respond 1NT (f - 1: any disagreements with 1NT?) Partner rebids two Clubs. Your Bid!!!! :P

Thank you all in advance

DHL
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#2 User is offline   nigel_k 

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Posted 2010-October-18, 13:34

You have my sympathy but not a solution as you have no forcing bids up to and including 4♣. I suppose I would guess 5♣. You could (probably should) play Bart but the same problem would still exist with diamonds instead of clubs.
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#3 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2010-October-18, 14:20

3♣ support with support :rolleyes:
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#4 User is offline   pooltuna 

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Posted 2010-October-18, 15:15

nigel_k, on Oct 18 2010, 02:34 PM, said:

You have my sympathy but not a solution as you have no forcing bids up to and including 4♣. I suppose I would guess 5♣. You could (probably should) play Bart but the same problem would still exist with diamonds instead of clubs.

I have a lot sympathy for your call but think you need to cut partner a tiny bit of slack and give him an out if he opened a truly ugly hand so 4♣ for me
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#5 User is offline   chasetb 

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Posted 2010-October-18, 18:13

Does nobody else think that 3NT has any play? I think I would bid 3♦, and assign the meaning to it that you have this kind of hand. What would 3♦ mean normally?
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#6 User is offline   bucky 

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Posted 2010-October-18, 18:27

chasetb, on Oct 18 2010, 07:13 PM, said:

What would 3♦ mean normally?

How about showing diamonds? :)
 
 
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Posted 2010-October-18, 18:45

a jump to 3D here would show a G.I. hand with good diamond suit (as would 3H show GI with 6 decent hearts).

To Gonzalo: I judged the hand to be too good for a 3C bid.

fwiw: i selected to rebid 3NT but will wait before exposing the success or lack thereof the bid.

DHL
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#8 User is offline   bucky 

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Posted 2010-October-18, 18:51

This hand has some good and bad features. The void in partner's long suit is definitely worrisome. If partner has minimum hand with soft value in spades and only 3 clubs, I won't be surprised if 3♣ is the limit, especially when opponents start by leading trumps.

I think 3♣ is quite appropriate, although you may feel having something in reserve. 3NT is very poor.
 
 
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Posted 2010-October-20, 03:34

3♣, maybe 4♣, both are fine for me but I prefer the 3 level so partner can describe further if necessary. I'm not really thinking of 3NT.
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#10 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2010-October-20, 04:38

View PostDouble !, on 2010-October-18, 18:45, said:

To Gonzalo: I judged the hand to be too good for a 3C bid.

I also think its an underbid, but the lack of forcing bids below 3NT make me make teh descriptive bid.

I have sympath for 3NT, but if partner has some 5-5 and is not on your wavelenght you might play a stupid contract.

On the other hand going over 3NT when partner can have 3 clubs can be very wrong.
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#11 User is offline   mike777 

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Posted 2010-October-20, 17:28

3c directly would be a blocking preemptive bid so I go through 2d first.

1s=1nt=2c=2d! asks partner to describe hand further and is art. so :

common would be:
1s=1nt
2c=2d!
2h(2-3 h/not extras)=3c( roughly 12-13 with 5+clubs)...


BART convention...very common usage.
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#12 User is offline   keylime 

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Posted 2010-October-20, 18:14

Pard maybe bidding a three card fragment here. I'm going to bid a slightly aggressive 4♣. Don't like three NT at all with this hand.
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Posted 2010-October-21, 01:44

View Postkeylime, on 2010-October-20, 18:14, said:

Pard maybe bidding a three card fragment here. I'm going to bid a slightly aggressive 4♣. Don't like three NT at all with this hand.

Any reason why you use that aweful huge font?
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#14 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2010-October-21, 05:06

I like it, for small pieces of text at least
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#15 User is offline   billw55 

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Posted 2010-October-21, 06:49

Hmmm. 3♣ seems like an underbid to me. I can live with either 4♣ or 5♣.

Is 3NT really as bad as everyone is saying? We will almost certainly get a red suit lead which could be helpful. OK a heart lead with the honors divided will probably sink us, but who knows, partner might have one of them, or even ♥Tx will be good for a second stopper. Besides that, spade wastage (KJxxx, yuuuuuck) is going to hurt us in any contract, why not play for 9 tricks instead of 10 or 11?
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#16 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2010-October-21, 08:14

you might have answered yourself bill, you wanna play 3NT but the correct bid for you is 4/5♣ :), 3♣ blame transfer is superior, because +130/150 is better than a minus in the wrong game
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#17 User is offline   ArtK78 

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Posted 2010-October-21, 08:42

Everyone understands that if the bidding starts 1♥ - 1NT* - 2m where 1NT is forcing, a 2♠ bid shows a big raise of opener's minor suit.

Does it not make sense for the same to be true for a 3♥ bid if the auction begins 1♠ - 1NT* - 2m? Admittedly, the 3♥ bid forces the auction to 3NT or 4 of the minor. But is that too much to ask? Surely the 3♥ rebid has no other use.

If you play BART (or any other gadget usage of the 2♦ rebid), you can solve this problem when the minor suit bid is clubs. But neither BART nor any other artificial use of the 2♦ rebid is "standard."
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Posted 2010-October-21, 12:50

Playing Bart would have simplified things somewhat with this hand (BART followed 3C to show better than raise to 3c) but might not have resolved everything. Anyway, this is academic because my partner for this hand was not familiar with Bart (except, maybe, Simpson), so that wasn't an option.

I rebid 3NT under the following hypotheses: 1) If P only has 3 clubs, then I might still be able to run the suit with one loser as I have a few entries to my hand, 2) The hcps that P lacks in clubs might be located in her bid suit, spades, wasted for a club contract, not NT, or scattered around (also more beneficial in NT). HCP aren't as important on this hand as the potential of setting up the clubs and then running them in NT. So, no, I disagree with a position that NT is not a playable consideration on this hand.

Indeed, 3NT was cold on any lead (9 off the top) as opener's hand was as follows: ♠ Jxxxx, ♥ x, ♦ Axx, ♣ AK98.
Opener likely isn't moving over 3NT. She might or might not take another bid after 3C by me but, with the yucky spade suit, might be concerned about getting too high even tho we could probably gotten out at 4C if need be.

all the matchpoints to you for getting to 6C. even 5C might beat 3NT as you make + 420 (beating + 400).
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Thanks all
DHL
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#19 User is offline   billw55 

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Posted 2010-October-21, 14:16

View PostDouble 1, on 2010-October-21, 12:50, said:

all the matchpoints to you for getting to 6C. even 5C might beat 3NT as you make + 420 (beating + 400).
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The OP said IMP pairs, not matchpoints.

What lead did you get against 3NT? A heart I presume?
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#20 User is offline   jdeegan 

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Posted 2010-October-25, 21:55

:D 4♣, just a pedestrian value bid. Pard can pass with 5-2-3-3 and 12 or 13 HCP.
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