[mtvesuvius]

Bbradley62, on 2010-October-30, 18:58, said:

"I see" said the blind man... Apologies to the volcano...

Not a problem, and thanks 655321, I'm still getting the hang of the new forums as well, the multi-quote thing still kinda baffles me, lol.

[Phil]

No charge. Preempts work.

Random preempts with heavy hands sometimes work really well. The next time the joker misses a vul 3N.

[mikestar13]

To me, the North hand is an obvious pass. The working rule when balancing over a preempt is assume 11 points with partner and bid what you think you can make. Ask yourself "do I want to be at the three level with this hand opposite an 11 count?"

[mtvesuvius]

mikestar13, on 2010-October-31, 23:51, said:

To me, the North hand is an obvious pass. The working rule when balancing over a preempt is assume 11 points with partner and bid what you think you can make. Ask yourself "do I want to be at the three level with this hand opposite an 11 count?"

This is completely faulty logic. In this auction, you are not only doubling to find a Major Suit fit (you are 5-4!), but also to protect partner, who may have been making a trap pass of 3♦. There are plenty of 11 counts that it is completely right to balance against. There are plenty of 7 counts even. Qxxx Jxxx xxx Ax is just one of them. How would you feel if you passed this out, and partner had something like Qxx xx AKTxx Axx?

I'd recommend you try to construct some hands where balancing with a double will lead to a very bad result; and not because partner didn't have the ♦9.You are a passed hand, now balancing W/R: Partner won't hang you, and will be very pleased to see a double when they passed with a diamond stack, which is quite likely here.

Sometimes bad results happen, and this is a case of an unfortunate lie of the cards.

And to some members of the B/I, when making a Takeout double in Direct seat, you can usually place partner with an "average" of 7-8 HCP (not 11!), scattered ones however, not the perfectos. In balancing, I don't believe any simulations have been run to establish one way or the other... 11 points sounds reasonable, but more often than not, you're bidding to protect partner who may have had to pass over 3♦ with a fairly good hand.

[Cascade]

dbsboy, on 2010-October-30, 08:31, said:

After the board, W (a self-rated expert) said, ''dbl w/ 9 hcp? lol'' sth like that. And my pick-up partner (also a self-rated expert) agreed.

Do you have any idea what they were experts in?

[Cascade]

North no blame his action is normal.

South some blame he is hoping for four tricks to materialize from somewhere when he has 2 tricks and not much more than the ♣K spare opposite a passed partner. To me this is a little too hopeful.

The rest luck.

3♥ or 4♣ look more normal actions from south.

[billw55]

the hog, on 2010-October-30, 18:43, said:

Missed the original pass. Sorry. Ok change the 3NT bid to 3H. Pass is now even poorer opposite a passed hand imo

Yeah, it's a tough hand but defending 3♦x opposite a passed hand that is evidently balancing on shape rather than high cards is not my cup of tea. I would try a semi-desperation 3♥.

But mostly I blame east for opening 3♦ in second seat on such a good hand. Another day that will cost him a vulnerable game.

[ArtK78]

petterb, on 2010-October-29, 12:23, said:

A passed hand usually does not have a very good hand...

Good point. I, along with many others, seem to have overlooked the fact that partner is a passed hand.

Still, it is not unreasonable to pass 3♦x for lack of a better alternative. Our side could easily have 5 defensive tricks on this auction, and taking any call other than pass could lead to a disaster.

[Cascade]

billw55, on 2010-November-01, 10:28, said:

But mostly I blame east for opening 3♦ in second seat on such a good hand. Another day that will cost him a vulnerable game.

I thought it was normal to open 3♦ on a decent hand 2nd seat unfavourable.

[billw55]

Cascade, on 2010-November-01, 10:39, said:

I thought it was normal to open 3♦ on a decent hand 2nd seat unfavourable.

I meant, as opposed to opening 1♦.

[Cyberyeti]

mikestar13, on 2010-October-31, 23:51, said:

To me, the North hand is an obvious pass. The working rule when balancing over a preempt is assume 11 points with partner and bid what you think you can make. Ask yourself "do I want to be at the three level with this hand opposite an 11 count?"

Absolute rubbish, I'll balance on a zero count with one or no diamonds, what do you think partner has in this circumstance ? Most of the time a big hand with a load of diamonds. Yes opps can trap you if they decide to pass their combined 27 count to you, but it doesn't really happen. It's only difficult where you have 3-7 and don't know if partner has any sort of hand.

My worry about passing out 3♦x is that holding the ♦AK, there must be a fair chance opener has more than 7 of them particularly if 4♦ would show spades, at which point your defensive prospects don't look so good.

[bucky]

dbsboy, on 2010-October-30, 08:31, said:

Re bucky: if it was a team game i would be less surprised I think, the fact that I saw many in the field chose to pass 3♦ put me in deep thought though.

As I said in a different thread before: considering the average level on BBO, how many sensible bids do you expect to see out of a small sample of 16 tables? When the field is meaningless, "many" in the field don't hold water. And the presence of a couple of "BBO-experts" at the table probably would skew it even further downwards.

Of course that doesn't mean all bad results on BBO can be dismissed as lacking field protection. But IMO the random 16-table field cannot be relied on to make a conclusion one way or another.