[babalu1997]

a moysian fit is occasioanlly found in the follwing auction


1 minor-DBL-p-2major-p-4major

as the jump may be done in 4 cards.

any do and donts lists for playing moysian fits?

[Tomi2]

yes, dont jump around too much on 4 card suits and bid more intelligent with 3 card fits

[babalu1997]

Tomi2, on Oct 7 2010, 08:02 AM, said:

yes, dont jump around too much on 4 card suits and bid more intelligent with 3 card fits

thanks but

this is the standard response and i want to know how to play 7 card fit when they happen

[P_Marlowe]

The standard plan for 4-3 fits is

#1 develop a strong side suit, e.g. by ruffing a small card in the
side suit in the hand with the short trumps
#2 draw two rounds of trump
#3 play the side suit, until someone trumps one of side suit winners
#4 win the next trick, draw the last trump, ..., claim ?!

With kind regards
Marlowe

[W Kovacs]

babalu1997, on Oct 7 2010, 08:14 AM, said:

Tomi2, on Oct 7 2010, 08:02 AM, said:

yes, dont jump around too much on 4 card suits and bid more intelligent with 3 card fits

thanks but

this is the standard response and i want to know how to play 7 card fit when they happen

Umm, carefully?

It really depends on what the two hands look like, same as any other hand with an 8+-card trump fit. There are plenty of ways to play a Moysian, it's all dependent on the specific hand.

My partner made 4H in a Moysian yesterday, missing the A. He forced out the A, ruffed a loser in the short hand, and then drew trump and played winners out. It's all hand dependent.

Moyse's main teaching was that one shouldn't be afraid of game with only a 4-3 fit if the suit is a good one.

[gordontd]

If you are getting forced, consider discarding losers, rather than ruffing in the long hand, until you can take the ruffs in the short hand.

[hrothgar]

Hey there

I think that its useful to distinquish between two cases:

The first is when you are playing a game level contract in a Moysian. Here, you're normally doing so for some specific reason. (You have a suit wide open, so you can't play 3N, etc.) Typically, said reason will suggest the appropriate line of play, be it establishing a side suit, a cross ruff, what have you.

The second case involves bidding styles/systems that frequently push you towards Moysian fits at the two level. Here, your primary goal is to exploit the fact that the opponents don't know if you're playing in a seven or an eight card fit. In many cases, you need to anticipate whether you won (or lost) the hand in the bidding phase and take appropriate action....

[Free]

It depends a lot on the situation. In most cases it's best not to touch trumps. Try to ruff in the short hand or establish a side suit first.

[pooltuna]

gordontd, on Oct 7 2010, 08:42 AM, said:

If you are getting forced, consider discarding losers, rather than ruffing in the long hand, until you can take the ruffs in the short hand.

This in particular applies to the ultra-moysian fit (4-two) where it is the only making game avaible. Normally you hold the AKQ of trumps with a good side suit and need a 4-3 trump split.

[Fluffy]

double post deleted

[Fluffy]

jump to 2 only with 4 cards

jump to 3 only with 5 cards

My only problem comes when I double 1♠ then I can play a moysan, otherwise I never found a problem.

[655321]

Fluffy, on Oct 7 2010, 03:05 PM, said:

jump to 2 only with 4 cards

jump to 3 only with 5 cards

My only problem comes when I double 1♠ then I can play a moysan, otherwise I never found a problem.

I bet it is a problem when you jump to 3 with a 5 card suit and make 8 tricks, when the other table jumped to 2 and also makes 8 tricks.

[awm]

On this specific auction, I would tend to cuebid with doubler's hand when holding only three-card support and enough for game, rather than jumping to 4M.

However, you certainly sometimes want to play in a moysian game. Maybe the best advice here is that playing trumps from the top right away is often wrong. Usually you want to do one of: (1) ruff something in the short hand before playing trump (2) establish some side suit before playing trump (3) duck the first round of trump to maintain control of the hand.

Which of these you want (or even whether you should pull trumps from the top right off) obviously depends on the hand.

Maybe a related piece of advice is to assume that trumps will be 4-2 (they usually are).

[jdonn]

In general, get your side suit going before trying to draw trumps, and unless you need them to be 3-3 play for them to be 4-2 (such as playing off the AK and accepting they will get 2 ruffs).

As for your auction, partner should absolutely not make the 4 major bid on a 3 card suit usually.

[Fluffy]

655321, on Oct 7 2010, 10:28 PM, said:

Fluffy, on Oct 7 2010, 03:05 PM, said:

jump to 2 only with 4 cards

jump to 3 only with 5 cards

My only problem comes when I double 1♠ then I can play a moysan, otherwise I never found a problem.

I bet it is a problem when you jump to 3 with a 5 card suit and make 8 tricks, when the other table jumped to 2 and also makes 8 tricks.

I don´t recall this ever happening, but I play few IMP boards anyway.

At MPs probably this has happened, but not as much as you think, people compete and force people to the 3 level anyway.

[Lobowolf]

gordontd, on Oct 7 2010, 08:42 AM, said:

If you are getting forced, consider discarding losers, rather than ruffing in the long hand, until you can take the ruffs in the short hand.

Consider discarding winners, too, if it won't bring your loser count up to 4.

[kgr]

A couple of test deals:
http://www.rpbridge.net/7j22.htm

[bucky]

babalu1997, on 2010-October-07, 07:01, said:

a moysian fit is occasioanlly found in the follwing auction


1 minor-DBL-p-2major-p-4major

as the jump may be done in 4 cards.

any do and donts lists for playing moysian fits?

Although 4M with moysian fits can be the best game contract in some cases, I don't see why the doubler would not investigate on alternative strains before committing to it. If the doubler has good enough a hand to bid game based on 3-card fit, why not cuebid 3m to find out more?

[babalu1997]

bucky, on 2010-October-20, 13:13, said:

Although 4M with moysian fits can be the best game contract in some cases, I don't see why the doubler would not investigate on alternative strains before committing to it. If the doubler has good enough a hand to bid game based on 3-card fit, why not cuebid 3m to find out more?

3nt has a narural meaning

and, bidding a new suit shows a much stronger hand with a self playing suit

the more information we find out, the more we display to the opps too

i do not think 7 card fits should be avoided at all costs

[bucky]

babalu1997, on 2010-October-20, 13:21, said:

3nt has a narural meaning

and, bidding a new suit shows a much stronger hand with a self playing suit

the more information we find out, the more we display to the opps too

i do not think 7 card fits should be avoided at all costs

So what kind of hand would you cuebid?

I don't think 7-card fits should be always avoided either, but I want to avoid BAD moysian contracts.