[epeeist]

Thanks to whomever implemented the default sayc cards -- i.e. UNLESS you change it or open your own card, when you start in an ACBL tournament there is a prepared SAYC card already opened and prepared.

One minor suggestion, unless I missed it, there was no announcement or listing in the tournament description that this was being done, which could lead to misunderstandings. It might be handy just to tell participants something like "All partnerships are assumed to be using the SAYC convention card which is automatically opened, UNLESS they change it or alert all system (non-psychic) bids which do not agree with the card."

[TimG]

epeeist, on Aug 16 2004, 02:58 AM, said:

"All partnerships are assumed to be using the SAYC convention card which is automatically opened, UNLESS they change it or alert all system (non-psychic) bids which do not agree with the card."

No. This implies that it is OK to deviate from the posted card as long as you alert. Makes the convention card rather useless.

[epeeist]

TimG, on Aug 16 2004, 07:30 AM, said:

epeeist, on Aug 16 2004, 02:58 AM, said:

"All partnerships are assumed to be using the SAYC convention card which is automatically opened, UNLESS they change it or alert all system (non-psychic) bids which do not agree with the card."

No. This implies that it is OK to deviate from the posted card as long as you alert. Makes the convention card rather useless.

If opponents are not damaged in any way, how is this a problem? Especially with BBO system, where p has no idea you alerted, no chance of giving p unauthorized information by alerting a bid as being contrary to cc.

[hrothgar]

epeeist, on Aug 17 2004, 10:57 PM, said:

TimG, on Aug 16 2004, 07:30 AM, said:

epeeist, on Aug 16 2004, 02:58 AM, said:

"All partnerships are assumed to be using the SAYC convention card which is automatically opened, UNLESS they change it or alert all system (non-psychic) bids which do not agree with the card."

No. This implies that it is OK to deviate from the posted card as long as you alert. Makes the convention card rather useless.

If opponents are not damaged in any way, how is this a problem? Especially with BBO system, where p has no idea you alerted, no chance of giving p unauthorized information by alerting a bid as being contrary to cc.

If the convention card doesn't accurately describe agreements, what good is it?

The obsession on form over substance is astounding...

[epeeist]

hrothgar, on Aug 17 2004, 03:00 PM, said:

epeeist, on Aug 17 2004, 10:57 PM, said:

TimG, on Aug 16 2004, 07:30 AM, said:

epeeist, on Aug 16 2004, 02:58 AM, said:

"All partnerships are assumed to be using the SAYC convention card which is automatically opened, UNLESS they change it or alert all system (non-psychic) bids which do not agree with the card."

No. This implies that it is OK to deviate from the posted card as long as you alert. Makes the convention card rather useless.

If opponents are not damaged in any way, how is this a problem? Especially with BBO system, where p has no idea you alerted, no chance of giving p unauthorized information by alerting a bid as being contrary to cc.

If the convention card doesn't accurately describe agreements, what good is it?

The obsession on form over substance is astounding...

The situation is one where, when the tournament starts, a default cc is opened (i.e. not one prepared by you and your p).

So I was imagining, what if you look at it, it seems fine, your p likewise, but later on you make a bid and immediately (after making bid) realize your p will interpret it "correctly" in your system, but that it contradicts what the cc says. If you say nothing, unfair to opps, so shouldn't you alert the bid? Opps may or may not complain to director, but at least you've ensured that they're not _misled_ by the bid, which should make adjustment by the TD (if necessary) easier.

[TimG]

epeeist, on Aug 17 2004, 03:26 PM, said:

So I was imagining, what if you look at it, it seems fine, your p likewise, but later on you make a bid and immediately (after making bid) realize your p will interpret it "correctly" in your system, but that it contradicts what the cc says. If you say nothing, unfair to opps, so shouldn't you alert the bid? Opps may or may not complain to director, but at least you've ensured that they're not _misled_ by the bid, which should make adjustment by the TD (if necessary) easier.

The opponents are entitled to know what your agreement is. If you have misbid (relative to your agreement) there is no need to inform the opponents.

If you have agreements that are not consistent with your CC, you should, of course, alert the opponents, but you should also change your CC.