[gurgistan]

I played my first hand of precision today.

I am interested in what gadgets to use.

For example, playing 2/1 I use such things as Unusual NT, RKB 1430, Smolen Transfers etc...

Also what carding and discarding conventions do most precision players use?

Summary: what are the most commonly used Conventions that precison players use to fine tune their system(s)?

[bucky]

Precision is a bidding system. According to the rule of bridge, card play starts only after bidding is over. I don't see how it can possibly affect what carding/discarding one chooses to do.

[Flameous]

You could/should use everything you use in normal 2/1. Especially for precision it's easy to use RKC 1430 when it's responder asking and 0314 when opener asks. (If you want to do such thing for small theoretical advantage)
And I recommend constructive major raises and some two-way trial system. With one partner I play 10-14 major openings with raise showing 8-11. From this setup I have bid absolutely the most good games others haven't been able to bid.

[awm]

There are perhaps a few treatments that work better with precision than with 2/1 (and vice versa). A few worth mentioning:

(1) XYZ. In precision, this would apply only after 1♦-1♥-1♠ or 1♦-1M-1NT. The idea is that 2♣ from responder forces 2♦ from opener and shows either a diamond signoff (passing 2♦) or some invitational hand. 2♦ from responder is an artificial game force. This works really well in precision because opener's hand is limited, allowing for clear "invitational" ranges and meaning that opener never has to worry about breaking the 2♣-forces-2♦ sequence to show some massive hand that can't stand a diamond signoff. It's also worth mentioning that the application of XYZ in standard bidding after a 1♣ opening has a lot of negatives (most particularly you cannot play in 2♣ any more) that don't apply over 1♦ openings.

(2) Inverted minor raises. These are pretty good in standard bidding also, but they have the disadvantage that you can't raise opener's minor to the two-level in a NF way. Since the precision 1♦ shows only two (or even fewer, in some variants) the range of hands where you want to raise is much reduced and you are usually better off to bid 1NT. The odds of holding a good hand with diamonds after a 1♦ opening also go up (since opener doesn't need that many diamonds).

(3) Weak jump shifts. The typical definition of these is "long suit, can't make game unless partner has a fit." Opposite a standard american opening, the range of such hands is narrow and rare (like 0-5 points, but the suit has to be okay so maybe 2-5). Opposite a limited, precision-style opening you can play a much wider range (like 0-8, since opener won't have 16+) meaning you can easily combine the "weak" and "constructive" hands into a single call.

(4) Semi-forcing notrump. Again, you can play this in standard methods too. But opposite a precision opening you can easily set things up so all of opener's balanced hands are minimum (with better balanced hands opening 1♣ or 1NT). Thus you get the advantages of NF notrump (when opener rebids, you know he has a real second suit) combined with the advantages of SF notrump (you can bid 1NT on moderately good hands without fear of missing a game).

There are many other methods which carry over from 2/1 (like major suit raise structures, game tries, etc) as well as some methods which are precision-only (response schemes to 1♣ and 2♣ and 2♦, meaning of opener's jump rebids after 1M-1N).

[gwnn]

precision players are very bad at defence since all they're thinking of is their silly UFO system and Fibonacci sequences.

[JLOGIC]

gwnn, on Sep 15 2010, 05:06 PM, said:

precision players are very bad at defence since all they're thinking of is their silly UFO system and Fibonacci sequences.

ohhhhhh burnnnnnnn

[awm]

There is perhaps one way that precision impacts carding.

A number of people have different agreements about leads/carding depending on which suits have been bid. For example, Elianna and I lead 3rd best in partner's suit against notrump, but otherwise lead 4th best from length. People playing alarm clock smith might agree to that if partner leads my suit, then low from me later encourages continuation, whereas if partner leads his suit or in any case an unbid suit, then high from me encourages continuation. People playing "obvious shift" might define what the obvious shift is in terms of which suits are bid in the auction.

With all this said, it's important for precision players to have an agreement about what constitutes a bid suit. If I open 1♦ (which is artificial, really) and opponents end up declaring, is diamonds "my suit" or "an unbid suit"? In some situations it might even make sense to define clubs as "my suit" (for example I open 1♦, LHO overcalls 2♦ natural and all pass -- most likely I have a standard 1♣ opening). If I open 2♦ (showing a three-suiter short in diamonds) then diamonds are most certainly not "my suit" (even though I "bid them")... but are clubs my suit? Spades?

[gurgistan]

I came across a precision player today who did not understand a Michaels cue bid. Is this something that precision players are unfamiliar with?

What about Unusual NT?

[Hairy_Scot]

gurgistan, on Oct 3 2010, 08:14 PM, said:

I came across a precision player today who did not understand a Michaels cue bid. Is this something that precision players are unfamiliar with?

What about Unusual NT?

I assume you use the word "player" with tongue in cheek?

Precision does not preclude or exclude any conventions.

There may be some that don't fit well with the system but by and large any conventions used in SAYC, ACOL, 2/1 can be used in precision.

As with all systems it is a matter of partnership choice.

[helene_t]

Traditionally, slam bidding works differently in Precision than in standard bidding. This is because an uncontested Precision auction would start with one player (the limited opener, or the positive responder to 1♣) showing his hand while the other being captain and just asking, saying very little about his hand. So while standard bidders would use methods like mixed cues where both players state which suits they control and either partner is allowed to ask for keycards, precision players would use asking bids that ask for the number of controls or length/quality of specific suits, and only the "captain" can ask those questions.

The difference between precision and standard, in this respect, is less marked in modern styles than it used to be, since some Precision players use essentially standard slam bidding methods (I think this is either because they have a background in standard bidding, or because most modern bridge theory is developed for standard systems), while at the same time you see some young experts playing a standard base with some precision-like gadgets like relays.

[dake50]

Starting backwards. What do you want to do well?
M-game decisions? Pick the clarifying bids to help that.
Slams? Pick those picture bids strong.
Hard in partials? Pick light shapely bids.

Then unused options are second tier goals: slam tries selected eg. 3C free it is light-shapely to put a toe in advantage there.

[hrothgar]

FWIW, I think that main area where you'll need to adopt gadgets is how you intend to handle competitive bids after your strong club openings.

1. This comes up all the time
2. I don't think there is any clear consensus how best to handle this, though certain methods like Rubenshol have some degree of popularity
3. The Precision books do a piss poor job describing what is, really, the Achilles heel of the system

[W Kovacs]

Which gadgets do you like.

My partner and I play 2/1 over 1D/H/S, Michaels, U2NT, Checkback Stayman, 1430, splinters, Inv m (over 1D), Exclusion 1430, J2NT, Strong Jump Shifts.

Pick what your comfortable with. The only openings where the gadgets don't apply are 1C, 2C and 2D, at least in our system. And 2C/D are so descriptive, gadgets really aren't necessary.

gwnn, on Sep 15 2010, 05:06 PM, said:

precision players are very bad at defence since all they're thinking of is their silly UFO system and Fibonacci sequences.

That might have hurt were it not true

Actually, I'm very proud of my defensive play. Most of the time.