[ONEferBRID]

effervesce, on Sep 28 2010, 01:16 AM, said:

Does nobody play
1♥ - 1♠
2♥ - 3♥ as game forcing?

Mind you, it doesn't really help for this hand...

Meckwell plays 2S! as an artificial GF in the following auction:
1H - 1S
2D - 2S! = artificial GF

I would probably think they do the same in:
1H - 1S
2H - 2S! ( but I don't know for sure )

then it could continue:
3D - 3H ( and no worry about Opener passing )

Now when Hts are agreed and Sp are "out-of-focus" ( as Ken would say ),
then another Meckwell method for RKC is 4S! = kickback for Hts whereas 4NT! is Voidwood w/ Sp-void ).
The North hand would reply 5S! ( 2 + hQ .. excluding the Sp-ace ) to 4NT!
I guess you could even ask for specific Kings, and end up in 6H anyway.

[junyi_zhu]

ONEferBRID, on Sep 26 2010, 10:44 AM, said:

Scoring: MP

---

North   South
--         1H
1S        2H
??

2/1 context...... but use any bidding system you like.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Our unenlightened bidding went:
North   South
- -         1H
1S        2H
4H ... making 12 tricks

Only 2 tables reached slam with a "leap of faith" bid of 6H over 2H.

1H 1S
2D 3H(gf)
3N(serious slam try, denies high card spade controls) 4C
4D 5H
6H

4C/D are both cuebids.
5H shows slam interest, but no cuebids available, so it denies S control and
showing good trumps and(or) diamonds), now 6H isn't too difficult to bid.

[bucky]

junyi_zhu, on Sep 28 2010, 12:30 PM, said:

1H 1S
2D 3H(gf)
3N(serious slam try, denies high card spade controls) 4C
4D 5H
6H

4C/D are both cuebids.
5H shows slam interest, but no cuebids available, so it denies S control and
showing good trumps and(or) diamonds), now 6H isn't too difficult to bid.

This sequence showcases the advantage of using 2nd-round jump bid by responder as game-force. However it makes 4th-suit-forcing ambiguous, which may create other problems on different hands, unless the partnership is prepared and thoroughly discussed this. For this reason, many players (including me, and I suspect same is true for many others on the forum) favor the simplicity and agree to play 4th suit GF. I think the OP's question is in this context: assuming you play 4sf to game and 3♥ rebid would have been invitational only, what is the best route to slam?

[junyi_zhu]

bucky, on Sep 28 2010, 07:52 PM, said:

junyi_zhu, on Sep 28 2010, 12:30 PM, said:

1H 1S
2D 3H(gf)
3N(serious slam try, denies high card spade controls) 4C
4D 5H
6H

4C/D are both cuebids.
5H shows slam interest, but no cuebids available, so it denies S control and
showing good trumps and(or) diamonds), now 6H isn't too difficult to bid.

This sequence showcases the advantage of using 2nd-round jump bid by responder as game-force. However it makes 4th-suit-forcing ambiguous, which may create other problems on different hands, unless the partnership is prepared and thoroughly discussed this. For this reason, many players (including me, and I suspect same is true for many others on the forum) favor the simplicity and agree to play 4th suit GF. I think the OP's question is in this context: assuming you play 4sf to game and 3♥ rebid would have been invitational only, what is the best route to slam?

Well, the so called "standard 4th suit gameforcing" (especially after 1H 1S 2D) should have been abandoned long time ago. The reason for its existence as a standard convention is that most players are just too lazy to improving their bidding structures. Playing 1H 1S 2D 3C as a general 4th suit gameforcing, you basically have no any low level raising method at three level to show a gf hand, which is just horrible. It is also very ridiculous, you have an easy way to bid 3H to invite, which only covers a very small spectrum of the hands, and you can most likely show your gf hand with support at 4 level, or even 5 level sometimes, which means you have no cuebids available, your rkc sequence can be messed, and opener has to bid 3NT over your 3C with a very wide range of hands, from 12 to 18. All in all, this "standard" treatment isn't very effective at all if you want to achieve high bidding accuracies. The similar wrong structure also happens after 1H 1S 2H, now you have many ways to sign off or to invite and very few ways to show gf hands and set up trumps at 3 level. That's also why many now play 2S and(or) 2NT after this sequence for conventional meanings. IMO, the basic design principle of bridge bidding is not to devise a lot of sign off or invitation sequences, but to improve the game and slam bidding.