[gwnn]

x
Kxx
KQJxxxx
xx

At what vulnerabilities would you bid 5♦ over
1♠-p-4♠-??

Also does it matter if opps play strong club (and are very happy bidding 4♠ on weak NT's with 3 spades)?

[hanp]

I think I would bid it at favorable or equal vulnerability against standard opponents. Maybe not red against white.

Against precision maybe I should still bid at equal vulnerability but Imight be too scared to do so at all red. Would definitely bid white against red against any system.

[Free]

hanp, on Sep 20 2010, 02:17 PM, said:

I think I would bid it at favorable or equal vulnerability against standard opponents. Maybe not red against white.

Against precision maybe I should still bid at equal vulnerability but Imight be too scared to do so at all red. Would definitely bid white against red against any system.

I pretty much share these thoughts.

[pooltuna]

gwnn, on Sep 20 2010, 07:48 AM, said:

x
Kxx
KQJxxxx
xx

At what vulnerabilities would you bid 5♦ over
1♠-p-4♠-??

Also does it matter if opps play strong club (and are very happy bidding 4♠ on weak NT's with 3 spades)?

I would think W vs R is a fairly clear 5♦. Other than that I would probably defend

[Phil]

It seems the only good vulnerability to bid is w/r.

If my RHO has a weak NT bidding is very dubious, since partner can easily have diamond shortness.

[mikeh]

white v red, no-brainer.....I can accept that equal probably works as well, altho red v red is slightly more expensive if we fail by 4 tricks...which isn't at all improbable. I confess that I would pass unless favourable.

It wouldn't change things for me if they played precision. If I were an 'equal' bidder, it might make me a 'favourable' bidder instead, but I'm already in the chicken coop.

[jdonn]

I would never bid, I think even w/r it's just too random off a shot. We could easily be down 4 or 5 on a bad day and who says they were even making?

I think bidding at any vul but w/r is borderline crazy actually. But of course it could be right so crazy is in the eye of the beholder?

[Pict]

Interesting question.

I would not, I think, have seriously considered 5D before looking at this post.

But if if I give partner diamond Ace and heart Queen, I make a profit w/r.

They probably won't bid a slam when it's making.

Still not sure I'll remember to bid this, but I am still thinking about it.

[jdonn]

Pict, on Sep 20 2010, 02:25 PM, said:

But if if I give partner diamond Ace and heart Queen, I make a profit w/r.

If ifs and buts were candy and nuts, everyone would have a merry Christmas.

[junyi_zhu]

gwnn, on Sep 20 2010, 12:48 PM, said:

x
Kxx
KQJxxxx
xx

At what vulnerabilities would you bid 5♦ over
1♠-p-4♠-??

Also does it matter if opps play strong club (and are very happy bidding 4♠ on weak NT's with 3 spades)?

Against strong clubs and a wide range of 4S, it looks like a pass, because you may often run into 5-3 spade fit with a lot of defenses. Against normal wide range 1S openings and preemptive 4S raises, it's quite clear to bid when white vs. red. For white vs. white, it's marginal.

[Pict]

jdonn, on Sep 20 2010, 02:36 PM, said:

Pict, on Sep 20 2010, 02:25 PM, said:

But if if I give partner diamond Ace and heart Queen, I make a profit w/r.

If ifs and buts were candy and nuts, everyone would have a merry Christmas.

Sort of a good point - but then I didn't disagree with your initial post.

I analysing for myself the likelihood of taking penalties against two suited openers (and overcalls - edit) .

I eventually concluded that whenever the penalty got good enough, I had a slam. So I lost interest in defences attempting to penalise the 2-suited opener.

This is the other way around, of course. It seems ridiculous to bid this hand (and may well be) but opponents are put in a difficult position.

As I said, I'm not convinced, and respect your judgement - but I'm not sure.

[gwnn]

I had an easy decision BTW, I was unfavourable so I passed.

[aguahombre]

gwnn, on Sep 20 2010, 02:02 PM, said:

I had an easy decision BTW, I was unfavourable so I passed.

At any vul you would have to pass to keep your icon.

[jdonn]

Pict, on Sep 20 2010, 02:56 PM, said:

jdonn, on Sep 20 2010, 02:36 PM, said:

Pict, on Sep 20 2010, 02:25 PM, said:

But if if I give partner diamond Ace and heart Queen, I make a profit w/r.

If ifs and buts were candy and nuts, everyone would have a merry Christmas.

Sort of a good point - but then I didn't disagree with your initial post.

I analysing for myself the likelihood of taking penalties against two suited openers (and overcalls - edit) .

I eventually concluded that whenever the penalty got good enough, I had a slam. So I lost interest in defences attempting to penalise the 2-suited opener.

This is the other way around, of course. It seems ridiculous to bid this hand (and may well be) but opponents are put in a difficult position.

As I said, I'm not convinced, and respect your judgement - but I'm not sure.

It's alright, I just wanted an excuse to use my clever saying.

[rogerclee]

I think passing at white against red is really against the odds.

[Siegmund]

Against SA or 2/1 players, I am eagerly bidding equal or favorable. Against Precisionists I am more nervous but feel it's still the right bid - just more likely that we're the ones sacrificing.

I have no complaint with anyone who wants to pass vs. precision if we are both vul.

[gwnn]

oh I see I inexplicably forgot to mention that this is matchpoints.

[bucky]

No one seems to have mentioned this yet: one of the possible dangers of bidding 5♦ is that, whatever you can make, partner may take it seriously and bid to one or two levels higher.

That being said, I think in long run it is a winning style to bid 5♦ w/r. At this color, partner should proceed with extra caution. I'd rather miss occasional slams (because partner thinks I am joking) than being hanged for competing and pushing opponents.

[bucky]

FWIW, I don't think one should be deterred from bidding at w/r, just because oppoents play precision, or like majority of BBO players who bid 1♠ - 4♠ with 13+ HCP and 3+ spades. In fact, if opponents are known to bid to make, I don't have to worry about partner having a good enough hand that can raise my 5♦.

[the hog]

Obvious pass at any vulnerability. Do you want partner to bid 6 because he thinks you had your bid?