[jdonn]

bucky, on Sep 17 2010, 04:11 PM, said:

pooltuna, on Sep 17 2010, 09:49 AM, said:

so your auction goes 1♣-1♠; 2♥-2NT (not necessarily the actual hand) now do you bid 3♠? and hope partner has the actual hand instead of JTxx Axx xxxx xx (or do you expect him to pass 2♥)

Over 2NT (which is possibly artificial and denies 5+ spades), 3♣ is painless. But with JTxx Axx xxxx xx, I'd serious think about an anti-system pass of the 2♥ bid (Marshall Miles would agree).

I think that's a huge error. I'm all for passing forcing bids in the very rare (emphasis on very) moments when we really think everything higher will give us a minus or we are too high already, but just because we are minimum and don't know of a fit yet is not nearly a good enough reason. Think of the hands partner could have...

KQx KQxx - AKQxxx
x KQJTx A AKxxxx

These are slams (granted very hard to bid) and perfectly consistent with a reverse. You could make either hand worse and still have game which just shows how easily game could exist. Not to mention that for many people the reverse can be 3 cards on a 3316 type of hand. And our hand isn't even that bad, we have an ace and there is a JT combination.

I think passing a forcing bid this early in the auction is usually a mistake when it's done and would be a clear error on this hand.

[bucky]

Many would open 2♣ with the two examples you gave, but your points are taken. With this hand, I would *think* about pass but probably still grit my teeth and pull out the 2NT card. At least I can stand a likely 3♣ rebid from partner. Reduce this hand to 4351 shape with same honor location (or would you pass or respond 1♦?), I would pass at the table. Yes, you can construct hands which make the pass look silly, but there are far more hands with which 2♥ offers better prospect (especially if I have club shortness).

[rduran1216]

opener has to reverse, then getting there is easy.

With spade and diamond holding switched, opener will have a major problem, but 5 losers makes a reverse for me.

[mike777]

if opener has to reverse ,,,this hand is not an issue

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as usual no one debates the issue

[whereagles]

cherdanno, on Sep 17 2010, 01:31 PM, said:

ONEferBRID, on Sep 17 2010, 08:18 AM, said:

whereagles, on Sep 17 2010, 07:52 AM, said:

1♣ 1♠
2♥ 2♠
4♠

perhaps?

yes, agree.

Why would anyone bid 4S, rather than a non-forcing 3S? Is this hand suddenly a game force? Does our partner not know how to evaluate opposite a 3415 reverse?

Because it feels right to bid game, even if 2♠ is a weakish bid.

[Fluffy]

hanp, on Sep 17 2010, 08:56 PM, said:

Adam, west's 2S bid is so alien to me that I am very surprised you would post this hand.

West didn't bid 2♠, you read something wrong probably.

[hanp]

I wrote something wrong instead, I meant east.

[peachy]

I see two votes for "Just Unlucky". Wow! I would have expected zero votes for that option.

[neilkaz]

peachy, on Sep 18 2010, 05:59 PM, said:

I see two votes for "Just Unlucky". Wow! I would have expected zero votes for that option.

Well some people just count HCP and think they need to hold a monster to reverse.

Others, like most of us, think the reverse is clear.