[JLOGIC]

jdonn, on Sep 13 2010, 04:04 PM, said:

1NT is one of the worst bids I have ever seen especially since this is mps, even pass is better. Otherwise I think it's close between all the options.

What are the alternatives to X iyo?

I guess 2D could be ok, but playing matchppoints I'm really eager to play in 1N or a 4-3 spade fit over some stupid diamond fit. Diamonds are not where the money's at when we have a bunch of HCP at MP.

I really think X is the only option heh. I know you love to pass with this type of hand but this one is too good I think.

[JLOGIC]

OK i read the thread. I see most people said 1N, we have talked about that.

Phil likes pass, I agree that pass and then cuebid over a X would be a reasonable description, but what are the odds that it's going to go:

1D 1H p p X ?

If partner has short hearts, the opps will often raise. True maybe LHO has a yarb and won't even at this vulnerability, but it seems really likely partner won't have a stiff heart, he'll have a doubleton.

In that case, our pass then cuebid mighht well have gone past our top spot of 1N which partner would have bid over a X. If our top spot is not 1N it will often be 2S in the 4-3, which we would have gotten to by Xing.

But what about when LHO raises to 2H? We have no bid on 1D 1H p 2H p p ? Double is penalty. We can try 2N for the minors, but we again might have passed our top spot of 2S, and we haven't shown any values yet and might have gotten screwed out of 3N or 5m.

And what about 1D 1H p p p ? I view that as extremely likely. Partner with a weak NT will pass (and given their failure to bid 2H, he will often have 3 hearts). That is very bad for us r/w at MP when we could have doubled and played 1N! We might get a lucky +100 vs +90, but more likely we are going +100 vs +120 or +50 vs +90 or something. I will never risk this happening.

So I really think pass is not good.

I think 2C and 2H are just wild overbids, we have a 4333 10 count with no heart stopper, where are we going? Driving so high at MP with this seems like suicide, again my main goal is to just get a nice plus in 1N or 2S on this hand. I have no other goals.

I see the biggest downside of double as being we might get to 4S when it's wrong. That's a risk I'm willing to take, my hand is quite good and they overcalled so partner is unlikely to have a GF opposite a negative double. If it does happen, who knows maybe I luck out and 4S is my top spot. Generally this hand will be us playing a partial and I want to guarantee that it's 1N or 2S and not 1H or 2D or 3D or whatever.

[jdonn]

JLOGIC, on Sep 13 2010, 04:19 PM, said:

jdonn, on Sep 13 2010, 04:04 PM, said:

1NT is one of the worst bids I have ever seen especially since this is mps, even pass is better. Otherwise I think it's close between all the options.

What are the alternatives to X iyo?

I guess 2D could be ok, but playing matchppoints I'm really eager to play in 1N or a 4-3 spade fit over some stupid diamond fit. Diamonds are not where the money's at when we have a bunch of HCP at MP.

I really think X is the only option heh. I know you love to pass with this type of hand but this one is too good I think.

2♥ is worthy of consideration but it's probably not quite good enough. I like double best since it's the only chance we have to reach 1NT by partner. And yeah I love passing these but this one is too good.

[JLOGIC]

jdonn, on Sep 13 2010, 05:32 PM, said:

JLOGIC, on Sep 13 2010, 04:19 PM, said:

jdonn, on Sep 13 2010, 04:04 PM, said:

1NT is one of the worst bids I have ever seen especially since this is mps, even pass is better. Otherwise I think it's close between all the options.

What are the alternatives to X iyo?

I guess 2D could be ok, but playing matchppoints I'm really eager to play in 1N or a 4-3 spade fit over some stupid diamond fit. Diamonds are not where the money's at when we have a bunch of HCP at MP.

I really think X is the only option heh. I know you love to pass with this type of hand but this one is too good I think.

2♥ is worthy of consideration but it's probably not quite good enough. I like double best since it's the only chance we have to reach 1NT by partner. And yeah I love passing these but this one is too good.

aggggggggrooooooooooo

I can see bids like 2H red at imps and stuff, but at MP I really believe in just protecting a plus. We don't even have spot cards. I mean, I don't even limit raise with this hand over 1H-1S, doing it over 1D 1H where we have no stopper so our most likely game becomes less likely even with necessary HCP, and we don't even have a real fit is just strange to me.

[junyi_zhu]

Rossoneri, on Sep 13 2010, 03:24 PM, said:

Scoring: MP

---

You pass, LHO passes, partner bids 1♦, RHO bids 1♥, now what do you bid?

Playing 5 card majors, strong NT, short club (1♦ promises at least 4)

you may want to play transfers and bid 1S as a transfer to 1NT...

[aguahombre]

And if partner doesn't have a stopper, she has to declare it. I like that. I owe her one.

[kayin801]

I have X to show this hand (1S shows 4+) but without that agreement X is still the best lie. 2♣ is the only other thing that comes to mind.

[Rossoneri]

For the doublers:

LHO passes, partner bids 1♠ and RHO bids 2♥. What do you do now?

[JLOGIC]

Rossoneri, on Sep 13 2010, 08:22 PM, said:

For the doublers:

LHO passes, partner bids 1♠ and RHO bids 2♥. What do you do now?

pass!

[TimG]

I recently heard/read that someone did a study and determined that Kansas actually is flatter than a pancake.

[aguahombre]

My ex was close.

[Rossoneri]

aguahombre, on Sep 14 2010, 03:32 AM, said:

My ex was close.

Nay, "Airport runway" is used more often in that context.

[aguahombre]

unfortunately, she never stepped out onto one.

[Free]

Since you ask what I would bid: 1♠. This shows some values, but 0-3♠ and no stopper (I play Dbl as 4+♠). Alternatively you can play the opposite, like Hog, that Dbl shows this hand and 1♠ is natural.

[whereagles]

@justin:

Obviously, 1NT will get you into wrong-sided contracts every now and then. But other bids will also lead to bad contracts in other circumstances.

My point is that 1NT will lead to more good contracts than other bids, ON AVERAGE. This is because it's a bid that follows the "importance inequality".

As I said, there's actually a way out of these 7-10 hands without stopper, which is to dbl WITHOUT 4 spades and bid 1♠ not with 5 but with 4+ cards. You lose the distinction between 4 and 5 spades, but you don't usually have it anyway if RHO passes instead of overcalling. Some players use and recommend this agreement.

[Rossoneri]

The full hand and what happened at the table:

Scoring: MP

---

P-P-1♦(1)-1♥
X-P-1♠-2♥
3♦-P-3♠(2)-P
4♠(3)-P-P-X
AP

(1) - Very aggressive 3rd seat
(2) - Trying to get more points for making
(3) - 3♠ showed extra, so let's go game

Of course, this was not a huge success....

(I was North. I don't deny being faultless in this sequence.)

[aguahombre]

A tough one, when all four players do strange things. Difficult hand to get to the par 2S undoubled down one or allow E/W to try 3H down one.

P (P) 1D (1H)----not that I would bid 1D, but that is what happened
X (2H) P (P)-----X either denies Spades or is Kayinone's least of evils
X (P) 2S (?)-----second double=more points than first double.

N/S are now out of the auction. The opps either bid hearts again or they don't.

On the actual auction the failure to raise hearts the first time, and the 2H call by the overcaller, are really weird.

[Rossoneri]

aguahombre, on Sep 16 2010, 06:00 PM, said:

On the actual auction the failure to raise hearts the first time, and the 2H call by the overcaller, are really weird.

Stranger things have happened at this club.

[gwnn]

3♦ ??

btw it's best to play 1♠ as 3 and 2♠ as minimum, 4 spades

[bucky]

aguahombre, on Sep 16 2010, 12:00 PM, said:

On the actual auction the failure to raise hearts the first time, and the 2H call by the overcaller, are really weird.

No more weird than the way N/S cruise to 4♠ afterwards.