[kenohr]

In a recent tournament the opposition claimed all but two of the remaining tricks making the contract. I felt I would be able to take an additional spade in addition to the two outstanding aces we held. I declined the claim. The opposition then claimed twice more stating he was giving us the two outstanding aces. I said to play the hand. A tournament director was called. The TD spent two or three seconds evaluating the hands and then awarded the opponents the contract plus a penalty trick and chastized us for wasting time in speedball. I was not given a chance to explain my thoughts. The opponents then called both me and my partner "a holes". I called the TD and reported the episode. His comment was to forget about the last hand and play bridge. He commented that the opponents should watch their language which indicated he was aware of the profanity. No penalty was awarded for the offensive language. My partner resigned from the tournament in protest and I resigned soon afterward. I am very upset with BBO and I feel that the Tournament Directors should be instructed to be polite and patient when dealing with tournament problems such as this.

[jillybean]

I imagine TD's are often too busy to give anything more than a cursory response during speedballs however they could have discussed this with you after the tournament. The 'penalty trick' is ludicrous but just another example of the idiosyncrasys that are creeping into online tournaments.

I think you will get the same advice as always, if you don't like the way a tournament is run, avoid that TD

[peachy]

I don't think you should be upset with BBO at all. BBO just gives the right to organize tournaments to pretty much any member in good standing, upon their application for that privilege. Many tournaments on BBO do not have a director who understands the laws and BBO does not require that they do. It is a free world.

Here is some practical advice, hope it helps you to have a good time

If you want high quality directing, many for-fee tournaments, especially the ACBL tournaments, are better than the free ones. [you have choice]

If you are unhappy with a particular game or TD, don't go there again [you have choice]

If you are unhappy with all tournaments, don't enter them. Host a table or set up a team game yourself, or enter individual Robot tournaments [you have choice]

If you enter a speedball tournament, don't delay the game [it is rude to delay. Also, TDs are busy enough without having to assign Ave-/Ave+ and adjudicate whose fault the lateness was]

If you want to decline a claim, don't ask for the hand to be played out [that would be against the laws]

[mycroft]

option 7: decline the claim, claim yourself, explaining how you're going to get your other trick, let declarer decide. DEFENDERS CAN CLAIM, even outside BBO.

No, I'm not upset at you - but it seems the obvious solution.

OTOH, I got autoadjusted to 3S-2 on a hand last week, where I can't see how to lose the extra trick, unless I change my mind from the line of play I was taking (give them trump tricks, repeated endplay) to a dumb line (take my top trumps, give them theirs, get endplayed myself). But I didn't really worry about it (and, of course, my analysis skills aren't exactly world-famous, so I could be wrong).

[jillybean]

peachy, on Sep 10 2010, 08:03 AM, said:

If you want to decline a claim, don't ask for the hand to be played out [that would be against the laws]

Altough what Peachy says is accurate, many BBO TD's ask for the hand to be played out and will boot you if you don't.

The OP has my sympathy, when you enter a tournament I think it is reasonable to expect a certain level of compentency and for the game to be run in accordance with the laws of the game.

[helene_t]

The reason why you are not allowed (under the law) to play out a hand after a rejected claim is, I think, mainly that declarer will get some clues such as that the opp that rejected the claim is more likely to hold critical cards. Online, the only information declarer gets is that someone rejected the claim, and there is little reason not to play it out.

Besides, unlike IRL tourneys where there will often be a competent TD that has the time and the communicative means to sort it out, online there is usually no alternative to playing it out.

And if the rule on BBO was that you should stop playing when a claim had been rejected then obviously the software would not allow you to play on.

So: if the TD (or host) says that in case a claim is rejected you must stop playing and call the TD then of course you must adhere to that. But the default procedure at online bridge is to play it out after a rejected claim.

[mycroft]

helene_t, on Sep 10 2010, 03:02 PM, said:

The reason why you are not allowed (under the law) to play out a hand after a rejected claim is, I think, mainly that declarer will get some clues such as that the opp that rejected the claim is more likely to hold critical cards. Online, the only information declarer gets is that someone rejected the claim, and there is little reason not to play it out.

I'm not sure I agree here; "there was an objection" is frequently enough, no need for "who objected":

Declarer claims the rest of the tricks. "Claim rejected." declarer then leads club to the A, and picks up the 5-0 break in either hand.

---

Yes, if you are careful, you play it that way from the start. But the Law says that if you think all the tricks are yours, there's no reason to start with diamond to the Ace, or (more reasonably) the CK.

[onoway]

I thought that when a person claimed on BBO, they were supposed to state their line of play. This makes it a whole lot easier to see if the claim is valid or not when there could be a question. Is this not right?

Some shysters on BBO claim when they know they dont have all the rest of the tricks, and are hoping to slip one over (sometimes even happens, lots of unconfident players will accept rather than challenging, esp in a tourney.) Others sometimes have made mistakes, forgetting a trump or a spot card still out, or thinking their spot card was higher or some such. Having the line of play delineated makes things a lot easier and quicker. That can as someone above said, apply to the defenders making a claim as well.

[barmar]

onoway, on Sep 17 2010, 10:09 PM, said:

I thought that when a person claimed on BBO, they were supposed to state their line of play. This makes it a whole lot easier to see if the claim is valid or not when there could be a question. Is this not right?

Some shysters on BBO claim when they know they dont have all the rest of the tricks, and are hoping to slip one over (sometimes even happens, lots of unconfident players will accept rather than challenging, esp in a tourney.) Others sometimes have made mistakes, forgetting a trump or a spot card still out, or thinking their spot card was higher or some such. Having the line of play delineated makes things a lot easier and quicker. That can as someone above said, apply to the defenders making a claim as well.

BBO players hardly ever state a line of play when they claim, even though there's a place in the claim box for them to fill in.

I've rarely had anyone deliberately try to claim too much. Sometimes they just forget there's a trump out, and sometimes they just click the claim button too quickly, forgetting to change the number of tricks they're claiming.

[TylerE]

One legimate problem is that the claim box will only accept about 40 characters...often NOT enough to reasonably state a line of play.

[peachy]

TylerE, on Sep 18 2010, 11:03 AM, said:

One legimate problem is that the claim box will only accept about 40 characters...often NOT enough to reasonably state a line of play.

If need 40+ characters to explain the line, then perhaps premature to claim.

[TylerE]

I don't think so at all. For instance, if you try to write, say, "Pulling trump, taking the proven finessee", you can't type in finessee.

[gwnn]

what's a finessee?

[barmar]

"pull trump take proven finesse" fits just fine. You're not being graded on grammar and spelling. There are also abbreviations like "dt" for "draw trump", and if you write "fness" they'll know what you mean.

[peachy]

TylerE, on Sep 18 2010, 03:11 PM, said:

I don't think so at all. For instance, if you try to write, say, "Pulling trump, taking the proven finessee", you can't type in finessee.

How about "draw, fin club" or whatever the suit is where the finesse will be taken. That is 14 characters including the spaces and the comma. Anyone who has played more than a month will understand this simple claim. Still 24 more characters left.

[TylerE]

You clearly play against different opponents than I do then...

[Bbradley62]

kenohr, on Sep 10 2010, 08:56 AM, said:

In a recent tournament the opposition claimed all but two of the remaining tricks making the contract. I felt I would be able to take an additional spade in addition to the two outstanding aces we held. I declined the claim. The opposition then claimed twice more stating he was giving us the two outstanding aces.

The second time declarer claimed, you could have called for the director, specifying "we get 2 aces and another spade" in your call explanation. That way, the director should respond to you, not to the opponent, when he arrives at the table since you're the one who called.

[Bbradley62]

kenohr, on Sep 10 2010, 08:56 AM, said:

The opponents then called both me and my partner "a holes". I called the TD and reported the episode.

This should be reported to both abuse@bridgebase.com and the tournament sponsor, if any. They'll prefer screenprints over copied-and-pasted text. They have more power to punish bad behavior.

[pirate22]

several times opp declarer at trick 10/11 claims,when acceptance/decline box comes up--irrespective if its a suit/n/t contract,and one sees it is not so,before i can click decline---my pard has accepted----------No recourse.what is even more "galling" there is no way that opp can make +1 on any lead

[jillybean]

I think it takes both players to accept a claim, only 1 to decline.