Help
lets say
1H--1S (relay)
2D (6H)--2S GF
2NT (balanced 1 suiter)--???
what should be the followed up ?
does M or m change something ?
What i think is best is
3Nt to play
1 step Keycard in long suit start of scan.
2 step 2 ask for 3 card suit.
rest is showing a stopper.
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6322 vs undefined GF hand
#1
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Posted 2010-September-04, 23:23
From Psych "I mean, Gus and I never see eye-to-eye on work stuff.
For instance, he doesn't like being used as a human shield when we're being shot at.
I happen to think it's a very noble way to meet one's maker, especially for a guy like him.
Bottom line is we never let that difference of opinion interfere with anything."
For instance, he doesn't like being used as a human shield when we're being shot at.
I happen to think it's a very noble way to meet one's maker, especially for a guy like him.
Bottom line is we never let that difference of opinion interfere with anything."
#2
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Posted 2010-September-05, 00:29
My scheme is:-
1H - 1S (rel)
2H (1-suiter, max) - 2S relay (gets to same point as your start)
Now
2N = 6-7 hearts, 3 spades
3C = 6-7 hearts, 3 diamonds
3D = 6-7 hearts, 3 clubs
3H = 2=7=2=2
3S and up = 8+ hearts
After 2N - 3C (relay)
3D = 3 clubs (3=6=1=3 or 3=7=0=3)
3H = 3 diamonds (3=6=3=1 or 3=7=3=0)
3S = 3=6=2=2
3N = 3=7=1=2
4C up = 3=7=2=1 (if you want to play in 3NT opposite this then don't relay!)
After 3C - 3D (relay)
3H = 3 clubs (1=6=3=3 or 0=7=3=3)
3S = 2=6=3=2
3N = 1=7=3=2
4C up = 2=7=3=1 (if you want to play in 3NT opposite this then don't relay!)
After 3D - 3H (relay)
3S = 2=6=2=3
3N = 1=7=2=3
4C up = 2=7=1=3 (if you want to play in 3NT opposite this then don't relay!)
It's essentially natural bidding with the fragments reordered for (hopefully) better optimisation.
The scheme over a minor is identical except that the first relay is 2H, so
1D - 1H (relay) - 2D (1-suiter, max) - 2H (relay)
2S = 6-7 diamonds, 3 hearts
2N = 6-7 diamonds, 3 spades
3C = 6-7 diamonds, 3 clubs
3D = 2=2=7=2
3H up = 8+ diamonds
Relay breaks are used for
a... stop asks
b... to set a suit for a cue + RKCB auction
c... to choose a final contract
d... to make a natural invite to slam
e... specialist queen ask
For your example case of 2NT = balanced 1-suiter I would use 3C as a relay asking for the fragment
eg
3D = 2=6=3=2
3H = 2=6=2=3
3S = 3=6=2=2
3N = 2=7=2=2
Obviously you could order these bids however you liked.
I like 3D, 3H and 3S here to be stopper asks in the 3 short suits even though this gives up on agreeing hearts at the 3 level. 4C and 4D (or 4C and 4H+ if you use 4D stop) are now available for any keycard asks you might like to make before completing shape relays. Even if "balanced 1-suiter" cannot include 7222 I still think it is better to have your lowest relay complete shape. Giving up a bid as a stop ask means you are not going to have full stopper-showing resolution but if it is a price you are willing to give then you can choose either 3H natural to start a cue auction or 3D to start scanning. I think the former is better here since your scans are in any case only starting at 3H-4C if you resolve shape and the additional information is useful, while 3H natural can occasionally keep you safe in 4 when off 2 quick losers in a side suit and also simplifies the issue of the trump queen. In a minor the 3 non-relay bids should certainly all be stopper asks.
1H - 1S (rel)
2H (1-suiter, max) - 2S relay (gets to same point as your start)
Now
2N = 6-7 hearts, 3 spades
3C = 6-7 hearts, 3 diamonds
3D = 6-7 hearts, 3 clubs
3H = 2=7=2=2
3S and up = 8+ hearts
After 2N - 3C (relay)
3D = 3 clubs (3=6=1=3 or 3=7=0=3)
3H = 3 diamonds (3=6=3=1 or 3=7=3=0)
3S = 3=6=2=2
3N = 3=7=1=2
4C up = 3=7=2=1 (if you want to play in 3NT opposite this then don't relay!)
After 3C - 3D (relay)
3H = 3 clubs (1=6=3=3 or 0=7=3=3)
3S = 2=6=3=2
3N = 1=7=3=2
4C up = 2=7=3=1 (if you want to play in 3NT opposite this then don't relay!)
After 3D - 3H (relay)
3S = 2=6=2=3
3N = 1=7=2=3
4C up = 2=7=1=3 (if you want to play in 3NT opposite this then don't relay!)
It's essentially natural bidding with the fragments reordered for (hopefully) better optimisation.
The scheme over a minor is identical except that the first relay is 2H, so
1D - 1H (relay) - 2D (1-suiter, max) - 2H (relay)
2S = 6-7 diamonds, 3 hearts
2N = 6-7 diamonds, 3 spades
3C = 6-7 diamonds, 3 clubs
3D = 2=2=7=2
3H up = 8+ diamonds
Relay breaks are used for
a... stop asks
b... to set a suit for a cue + RKCB auction
c... to choose a final contract
d... to make a natural invite to slam
e... specialist queen ask
For your example case of 2NT = balanced 1-suiter I would use 3C as a relay asking for the fragment
eg
3D = 2=6=3=2
3H = 2=6=2=3
3S = 3=6=2=2
3N = 2=7=2=2
Obviously you could order these bids however you liked.
I like 3D, 3H and 3S here to be stopper asks in the 3 short suits even though this gives up on agreeing hearts at the 3 level. 4C and 4D (or 4C and 4H+ if you use 4D stop) are now available for any keycard asks you might like to make before completing shape relays. Even if "balanced 1-suiter" cannot include 7222 I still think it is better to have your lowest relay complete shape. Giving up a bid as a stop ask means you are not going to have full stopper-showing resolution but if it is a price you are willing to give then you can choose either 3H natural to start a cue auction or 3D to start scanning. I think the former is better here since your scans are in any case only starting at 3H-4C if you resolve shape and the additional information is useful, while 3H natural can occasionally keep you safe in 4 when off 2 quick losers in a side suit and also simplifies the issue of the trump queen. In a minor the 3 non-relay bids should certainly all be stopper asks.
(-: Zel :-)
#3
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Posted 2010-September-06, 04:53
2N = 6-7 hearts, 3 spades
3C = 6-7 hearts, 3 diamonds
3D = 6-7 hearts, 3 clubs
3H = 2=7=2=2
3S and up = 8+ hearts
Im pretty sure starting by singleton is best. Wastage vs stiff mean 3NT is better than 4M. We are also showing void directly, wich is a more important feature than having 2 or 3 on the side.
Im thinking exactly the opposite hands where 3Nt is better than 4M are not rare at all.
I think a solution to my problem is using the 2nd bid to show a long suit in the unbid majors.
single suit D (12-14)---2H (GF)
3C (H stiff)----???
3D D keyc
3H 5 spades D tol. (without tol we wouldnt relay.)
3S club keyc
3Nt to play
4C S keyc
This mean that after long D we should show stiff clubs fisrt (since there is 2 possible majors)
3C = 6-7 hearts, 3 diamonds
3D = 6-7 hearts, 3 clubs
3H = 2=7=2=2
3S and up = 8+ hearts
Im pretty sure starting by singleton is best. Wastage vs stiff mean 3NT is better than 4M. We are also showing void directly, wich is a more important feature than having 2 or 3 on the side.
Quote
4C up = 3=7=2=1 (if you want to play in 3NT opposite this then don't relay!)
I think a solution to my problem is using the 2nd bid to show a long suit in the unbid majors.
single suit D (12-14)---2H (GF)
3C (H stiff)----???
3D D keyc
3H 5 spades D tol. (without tol we wouldnt relay.)
3S club keyc
3Nt to play
4C S keyc
This mean that after long D we should show stiff clubs fisrt (since there is 2 possible majors)
From Psych "I mean, Gus and I never see eye-to-eye on work stuff.
For instance, he doesn't like being used as a human shield when we're being shot at.
I happen to think it's a very noble way to meet one's maker, especially for a guy like him.
Bottom line is we never let that difference of opinion interfere with anything."
For instance, he doesn't like being used as a human shield when we're being shot at.
I happen to think it's a very noble way to meet one's maker, especially for a guy like him.
Bottom line is we never let that difference of opinion interfere with anything."
#4
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Posted 2010-September-06, 18:25
I think it depends what natural options your system has Ben. First priority is finding the right strain/game so if you cannot show 5 spades naturally you need first to find out whether Opener has 3 spades. If you build the system such that Responder has shown this hand naturally then showing shortage is clearly better. Your comment about requiring D tolerance suggests this is so but that is not clear from the OP. That's really the point about system building though isn't it? You have to see the overall system structure to fill in the details. I hope that you add the point about lack of fit to the expl you give opps!
(-: Zel :-)
#5
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Posted 2010-September-09, 18:08
What is the advantage of Keycard ask as the 1st step in scan, as opposed to symmetric style control ask (2,1 or 3,2,1 as you prefer)?
#6
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Posted 2010-September-11, 08:47
our range is narrow so AKQ pts isnt necessary, so its simpler to set trumps and do spriral scan (its very efficient)
I would like to see a test drive comparaison of Sscan vs other methods.
I would like to see a test drive comparaison of Sscan vs other methods.
From Psych "I mean, Gus and I never see eye-to-eye on work stuff.
For instance, he doesn't like being used as a human shield when we're being shot at.
I happen to think it's a very noble way to meet one's maker, especially for a guy like him.
Bottom line is we never let that difference of opinion interfere with anything."
For instance, he doesn't like being used as a human shield when we're being shot at.
I happen to think it's a very noble way to meet one's maker, especially for a guy like him.
Bottom line is we never let that difference of opinion interfere with anything."
#7
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- Joined: 2006-May-18
- Gender:Not Telling
Posted 2010-September-15, 21:09
If someone does run such a comparison I would love for them to include the version of scan that looks for controls in the same style as Roman cue bids versus ace-showing cue bids. By this I mean that bidding the first step denies both the ace and the king of the longest suit (or trump suit if already set) and so on. My experience is that this speeds up the scanning process greatly without an important loss of accuracy. I am quite willing to be shown otherwise if someone has a way of simulating this.
(-: Zel :-)
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