[TimG]

JoAnneM, on Sep 10 2010, 12:58 PM, said:

If the player was just breaking a hotel rule I think the penalty was severe, if a CC rule then, yes, that player is part of the team and should have thought of himself as one of the "unit".

Breaking hotel rules is bad because it jeopardized the sponsoring body's ability to hold future tournaments at the same site. I agree that it would be strange to penalize someone for merely breaking a hotel rule if not stated in the CoC or Disciplinary Code, but I think it entirely reasonable to put in any CoC or Disciplinary Code a blanket rule about following host site rules.

[pran]

Echognome, on Sep 10 2010, 11:29 PM, said:

pran, on Sep 10 2010, 02:53 PM, said:

In Norway we ban smoking anywhere indoors both by national law and also repeated in CoC.

(In CoC we also ban the consumption of beverages containing alcohol by any person present in the playrooms during sessions, and by the players themselves during or between same day sessions regardless of where they drink.)

Sounds like they should be called the "No Fun in Norway" rules. It seems a really silly rule to ban drinking between same sessions. Way too much big brother. The rule implies I can drink before a session and after a session, but not in between. I cannot imagine how awkward it would be for a TD to give a fine to a player for drinking at a hotel bar at a lunch or dinner break. As an alternative rule, it would make sense for there to be a rule that a player found to be intoxicated during a session would be kicked out of the event with possible further disciplinary fines.

It also sounds like a midnight speedball game where drinking is welcomed (such as in Brighton or the zip KO's in the ACBL) would be unheard of. That's a shame as those can be very fun.

Oh we have lot of fun without the need of alcohol to assist it.

We generally do not care what a player does on his own, but if he shows signs of being intoxicated at the table he will most certainly be dismissed immediately (and receive a follow-up diciplinary action).

[pran]

TimG, on Sep 11 2010, 03:54 AM, said:

JoAnneM, on Sep 10 2010, 12:58 PM, said:

If the player was just breaking a hotel rule I think the penalty was severe, if a CC rule then, yes, that player is part of the team and should have thought of himself as one of the "unit".

Breaking hotel rules is bad because it jeopardized the sponsoring body's ability to hold future tournaments at the same site. I agree that it would be strange to penalize someone for merely breaking a hotel rule if not stated in the CoC or Disciplinary Code, but I think it entirely reasonable to put in any CoC or Disciplinary Code a blanket rule about following host site rules.

Norwegian law is very strict on such matters: If a (random) official control party arrives during an event and discovers that alcohol apparently has been consumed on the premises in conflict with the licencing regulation for the establishment it will have consequences for the establishment's license and also result in an immediate (and unconditional) termination of the event in progress.

[bluejak]

Suppose a player has consumed alcohol between sessions in a way that is not against Norwegian licensing regulations. Is he still liable for penalties?

[pran]

bluejak, on Sep 14 2010, 12:32 AM, said:

Suppose a player has consumed alcohol between sessions in a way that is not against Norwegian licensing regulations.  Is he still liable for penalties?

If he turns up at the table apparently influenced by alcohol, definitely yes.

And consuming alcohol on the premises or in the close neighbourhood (like in a different room in the hotel) between same-day sessions is in any case against the COC regardless of whether this would be permissible under Norwegian law.

Quote (my translation) from Norwegian Bridge Federation's CoC:

Alcohol is banned in all NBF tournaments. This applies to players, officials and spectators, on the premises as well as outside, each day until all play that day has been completed.

Unquote.

Note that the CoC says all play that day, not that session.

[CamHenry]

pran, on Sep 14 2010, 03:19 AM, said:

Alcohol is banned in all NBF tournaments. This applies to players, officials and spectators, on the premises as well as outside, each day until all play that day has been completed.

Unquote.

Note that the CoC says all play that day, not that session.

That sounds unbelievably harsh: what if it's a short knockout, for example, and you're eliminated at 7pm. You're not allowed a beer down the pub with team-mates while you do the post-mortem?

Wow.

[RMB1]

You can imagine the scene: some hotel in the English Midlands, it is Saturday night at some EBU national competition. The session is due to finish at 23:30 but some players are late. Noone can consume alcohol until all play for the day is completed. The event continues tomorrow, so no one can drink after midnight (because play for tomorrow will not have finished until that evening). David Burn has finished play an hour ago and is waiting patiently (!) at the bar in the next room but at Robson's table there are still two boards to finish. The TD is hovering (he wants a drink too) and some sort of "bush telegraph" is evolving to relay the moment of the last card being played, from the playing room to the bar. The atmosphere in the playing room, and in bar, is getting edgy, as play again grinds to halt at the remaining table ...

[blackshoe]

Another prime example of thread drift. Not to mention the ridiculous extremes to which "zero tolerance" can take us.

[olegru]

I am wondering how many IMP will be penalty for entire team for murdering a kibitzer by team member in the toilet room.

[jeremy69]

Talking of to whom the penalty applies I believe there was a case where a player in an international event refused a drugs test which is viewed by officaldom as the same as failing it. The net result was no medal for the said person but the rest of the team did get their medals which I thought curious. In Athletics if one player refuses or fails a test in a relay all the team is disqualified which it seems to me is the right thing to do.

Quote

I am wondering how many IMP will be penalty for entire team for murdering a kibitzer by team member in the toilet room

6 imps. Sufficiently serious to merit a double disciplinary penalty

[TimG]

jeremy69, on Sep 14 2010, 09:39 AM, said:

In Athletics if one player refuses or fails a test in a relay all the team is disqualified which it seems to me is the right thing to do.

If a player on a MLB or NFL team fails a test, the individual is suspended and the team is not penalized (beyond being without the services of the player). At least that's how I think it works.

[mjj29]

TimG, on Sep 14 2010, 10:10 AM, said:

jeremy69, on Sep 14 2010, 09:39 AM, said:

In Athletics if one player refuses or fails a test in a relay all the team is disqualified which it seems to me is the right thing to do.

If a player on a MLB or NFL team fails a test, the individual is suspended and the team is not penalized (beyond being without the services of the player). At least that's how I think it works.

Perhaps it depends whether they were tested before or after the event they competed in...

[bluejak]

Surely a double DP is 12 imps?