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1D--2H when 1H would be a relay. whats the best range ?

#1 User is offline   benlessard 

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Posted 2010-September-03, 09:08

1D--1H
???--2H

vs
1D---2H

In standard system i have little experience with strong jumpshift. So im used that 2H is weak 3-7 and that
1D 1H
1s/2m 2H always show 8 to bad 11.

The gain is not great and having 6H/4S weakish is a problem.


In my relay system


1D is 4+ and 11-22 unbal.
1D---1H is relay.

in all sequence responder 2H rebid is natural showing long hearts so i still have two 2H ranges. But it would be real nice if 2H would be a 2nd GF relay.

1D--1H
2C (showing S 12-14 or Gf)--??

here it would be great to use 2H as GF instead of 2Nt (2S is to play)

1Nt (show 6D or D+H)----2C relay at least INV
2D (6D not 4H 12-14)--- ???

2H GF relay (instead of 2S) or playing that 2H show hearts.


It would be a great plus if 1H relay followed by 2H as another GF relay. But this will only give me one way to show responder 6H via a direct 2H. Is it playable to have a 6-10 range? (even with 4S on the side will have to bid 2H)
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#2 User is offline   rbforster 

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Posted 2010-September-03, 14:02

I think in your system it's important to cater to constructive hands over weaker ones, if you have to choose. As such, I'd suggest the 1D-2H jump be invitational with long hearts.

This way, the hands that respond 1 naturally are either weaker or GF. Since you won't always have a way to sign off in 2 if you respond 1 with a weak long heart suit, you may either need to pass these hands or take a preference to one of opener's suits. For example,

1D-1H-1S() you can still get out with a weak hand, since 1N is the inv+ relay
1D-1H-1N() you can still get out with a weak hand, since 2 is inv+ relay
1D-1H-2m() now 2 is getting used as a relay, so you're forced to take a S/D pref

This isn't that bad, since if you've got a weak hand with long hearts and short spades (bad for taking the spade preference in the last cases), you can probably just pass 1D and the opponents will have enough spades that they'll double or bid.

On the other hand, if you tried to make the direct jump 1D-2H weak, you would bid 1D-1H on invitational heart hands too. This could lead to a problem after 1D-1H-2C(min) since you couldn't get out in hearts, which would be a likely part score target.
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#3 User is offline   mgoetze 

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Posted 2010-September-03, 15:40

benlessard, on Sep 3 2010, 04:08 PM, said:

In my relay system


1D is 4+ and 11-22 unbal.
1D---1H is relay.

4+ what... diamonds???
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#4 User is offline   benlessard 

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Posted 2010-September-03, 15:54

good point Rob.

1D-1H-1S(♣) you can still get out with a weak ♥ hand, since 1N is the inv+ relay
1D-1H-1N(♦) you can still get out with a weak ♥ hand, since 2♣ is inv+ relay
1D-1H-2m(♠) now 2♥ is getting used as a relay, so you're forced to take a S/D pref

In fact i had 3H range in many auction wich is redundant.

1D-1H-1Sİ-1Nt (rel)-2m-2H is inv with long H (but will be GF)
1D-1H-1N(♦)-2C-2D (6D)-2H was INV despite partner showing mini (but will be GF)

1D-1H-2m) here i know if partner is 12-14 or 15-17 with D and S so i should just take a pref.

The problem was that with 6H+4S i didnt like jumping to 2H but i think its a lesser evil.

How would you split the range ?

Maybe i have some free space at 1Nt or the 2 level.

Right now the responses are 1NT clubs 5-8 or GF (i can probably put the GF hands out of there)

2C weakish 4-7 D raise (could be 3 trumps)
2D mixed raise. (could be 3 trumps)

Quote

4+ what... diamonds???
yes
From Psych "I mean, Gus and I never see eye-to-eye on work stuff.
For instance, he doesn't like being used as a human shield when we're being shot at.
I happen to think it's a very noble way to meet one's maker, especially for a guy like him.
Bottom line is we never let that difference of opinion interfere with anything."
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#5 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2010-September-04, 04:31

Why not use 1H as your INV+ relay with direct bids as natural, weak and non-forcing? The exception would be that 1NT is used for hearts. It makes a highly efficient system and there is plenty of space for full relays if that floats your boat.

Edit: just something to add here from experience. If you do go this route it is best to show 4-card suits up the line with the weak hand even if this involves canape. Unless Opener has extras you just want to find a playable spot and stop quickly.
(-: Zel :-)

Happy New Year everyone!
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#6 User is offline   wclass___ 

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Posted 2010-September-05, 05:52

Immediate (+1 step) over wide ranged openings isn't worth it. Really.


1(various precision styles)>> 1N > 1(limited) > 1(limited)

IMO these are only openings (there are some other exceptions) where immediate +1 relay is theoretically sound.

Also if you chose to go with +1 relay over say 1, opener should still have a low response that says his shape is too wild to be useful for relays. Over that responder should chose which way to go - some optimized relays(most probably with fit) or natural. But main advantage is that common shapes will be described a bit lower (optimally 3 or 3 being highest).
Seeking input from anyone who doesn't frequently "wtp", "Lol" or post to merely "Agree with ..." --sathyab
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