[dartagnan9]

I feel as if I'm hitting a brick wall. Can somebody tell me: does anything ever come of bug discussions in terms of changes? It's frustrating to see the same things repeated over and over again, and nothing happens.

I did a screen capture since I didn't want to waste time trying to save the hand to BBO while the contract was going south. The screen capture does not show the entire bidding sequence.



I believe the only missing bid is my opening bid of 1♥.

From there it was lunacy. GIB wouldn't accept that I clearly had a superstrong heart hand which I bid 5 times (including jumping to game), and it kept preferring its stupid, weak diamond hand all the way to grand slam in diamonds! As far as it knew, I had no diamonds at all! Yet it did have support for hearts!

Can a bug be more clear than this?

This sort of thing has happened to me numerous times. Can the GIB developers please at least concede there's a problem here?

Keith Adams

[cloa513]

You should be able to gather the whole sordid mess using My Hands. I know GIB is stupid but why did you keep competiting as well- you have diamonds support. Pass 5D- at least its a decent contract.

[TimG]

dartagnan9, on Sep 1 2010, 02:01 AM, said:

Can the GIB developers please at least concede there's a problem here?

Concede? That seems to put things in adversarial terms. Being adversarial is seldom the way to get your issue addressed.

[calm01]

Your view of little happening to GIB is perhaps both unkind but perceptive.

My perception is that the developers are reluctant to engage on a major upgrade of any kind, preferring a small tweak here of a simple test there.

You will note that there has not even been a reply to my requests for a change log and GIB version number. A simple addition of a fourth pinned discussion would be the ideal place for such a bug fix/improvement log. I have previously been reluctant to suggest how the GIB version and change log could be implemented because telling how to implement something can demotivate.

Over 20 years ago i was a software team project manager.

Based on this experience and the nature of developers recent responses, there are three probable problems:

- there is little or no budget from Fred for the purpose of GIB improvement and the guys are doing their best in this context,

- the code is so opaque that even undertaking a minor change is a high risk or significant task,

- there are competing requirements for GIN that leave the developers in almost a no-win position.

If even one of these apply to some degree then we must have patience until the time is right for GIB improvement. Perhaps Fred needs to be be taken up on his request for feedback.

[kenrexford]

Why did you keep bidding your void?

[uday]

The missing bid isn't 1H. RHO opened 1S, South made a TO X

original hand here: http://tinyurl.com/3xlylcs


GIB has a known issue where, after a TO X, it can be impossible to correct its initial impression of "opening hand, support for unbid suits"

Until we find & fix all the related bugs, it is best to mouse over / click your subsequent bids to make sure GIB will interpret them as you do.

In this particular hand, 3H would have been more likely to be understood correctly.

Of course, GIB's inability to handle this particular sequence properly is a glitch, and we'll fix it.

U

[Bbradley62]

Can dartagnan9 please at least concede that he should have his facts right before posting complaints?

[calm01]

Part of my job as a software project manager was managing user expectations.

So Uday, if you want your frustration at unrealistic expectations of improvement to be lower then:

- post a list of known unfixed bugs with an ABC priority for them,
- post a list of recent bug fixed and the latest GIB release number,
- ideally ask for vote on relative priority (ABC) from members of this list.

Explain that the members vote is a consideration but so is available resources, risk assessment, frequency of occurrence/impact and the skills required for fixing each bug.

In other words engage with the community even more than you do and you will have a more supportive and helpful community.

I for one have stopped logging bugs which are not high occurrence - I suspect others may have have frustrated into giving up earlier.

So I applaud the original poster for still being willing to take the time to share.

Without such increased engagemen,t the GIB forum will be mostly limited to new contributors reporting known bugs who in turn get frustrated and give up.

This does not do you and the teams effort justice - does it?

[dartagnan9]

Thanks for all the points and answers etc. I know I was mad when I posted it, and I could have used more temperate language. I'm a long-term software developer too, and I like to give feedback in the hope that things can be improved for everybody. But I "concede" that the carrot is better than the stick

"Can dartagnan9 please at least concede that he should have his facts right before posting complaints?"

&

"You should be able to gather the whole sordid mess using My Hands."

I'm happy to concede that I was wrong. But I did forewarn: I said in my msg that "I believe" my opening bid was 1H. I should have stated that more clearly, but since I couldn't see it, and it was not (despite what the above says) in "My Hands", I couldn't be sure, and that seemed the most logical deduction. But yes, I was wrong.

For some reason, almost always, I don't find the RR$.25 hands in My Hands. Or is it just that they arrive late? I thought I checked the next day, once, and still couldn't find it.

Yes, I should have just given up and let GIB have his blessed 5D, but I was intent on hammering on the head at the time and didn't think to stop

Thanks all, Keith

[barmar]

Robot Race and Robot Reward tourneys aren't in My Hands.

[barmar]

uday, on Sep 1 2010, 02:10 PM, said:

Until we find & fix all the related bugs, it is best to mouse over / click your subsequent bids to make sure GIB will interpret them as you do.

Except, of course, for all the times when the explanations are nonsense.

Clicking on 4♥ gives an explanation that includes both "4- H" and "biddable H".

[Bbradley62]

Mousing over potential bids also doesn't warn you that you might be creating a problem for the next round. Since "we" know that double-and-correct is not part of GIB's system, but "we" only includes forum readers, not the larger BBO population, could you note this problem in GIB's System Notes until it is resolved?

[calm01]

Bbrafley62,

Good idea about bringing attention to GIB behaviour in the documentation.

While Udat and the team manage the bridge bidding expectations regarding the GIB handling of the GOSH, there is also the common failure to appreciate understanding that almost all GIB doubles are for takeout. I have lost count of how many times I play in something like 3C -1 or -2 after honouring partners takeout double with my 1 point 4432 or 4333 hand for what would normally be a poor or average result only to find half the competition have defended 2H X making (or similar with or without overtricks) to give me +6 or more undeserved imps.

Updating the system definition including a a date of last change requires a marked change in documenting behaviour of the support team. The trouble with such change is that sometimes such alterations in behaviour are seen as admission of failure of past behaviour of the team colleagues.

Improvements thus sometimes only occur when the ego is relaxed.

Uday and his team surely do not suffer from this problem.