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Responding to overcall Misfit hands-Robson/Segal-Rubens adv.etc

#1 User is offline   Chamaco 

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Posted 2004-August-09, 07:18

Hi all !
I am almost ready to try to adopt the overcall system described by Robson/Segal (Ptship bidding in bridge), and I have ran some simulations to make some practice.

I have come across to a couple of hands where I do not feel sure of the right action.
Below is one hand that raises (to me) the following question:

- is it possible to integrate into the Robson/Segal scheme a "rescue" structure in response to a 1M overcall ?
Something like a "negative free bid" (NF 2/1 ) or a 1NT forcing to seek safety in a long minor when playing in 1M rates to be bad.

Here is the hand:
1C-(1S)-pass-?


Now here is the problem:

1) If i could play 1NT forcing, I'd try that, although it may be dangerous if pard repeats spades at the 2 level.
However, I doubt that using 1NT fits well with Robson/Segal scheme: because the jump to 2NT shows 4+ cd support and 10+ hcp, then the notrump oriented hands should go via 1NT.
Is there anyone combining 1NT forcing with 2NT as high card unbalanced raise in the major ?

2) If I could play Rubens advances, I guess I'd just transfer in my longest suit then pass.
However, in order to play Rubens advances I think I need too give up the 1NT invitationbal, and I am not surre that this fits with Robson/Segal structure.
Is there anyone combining Rubens advances with Robson/Segal structure ?

Thanks all !! :P)
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Posted 2004-August-09, 07:35

Rubens advances can work fine here.

For those unfamiliar with rubens advances, it is defined as starting at cue-bid (here 2C by advancer) to one less than the over called suit (here 2H). The bid is a transfer to the next higher suit....

So..

(1C)-1H-(pass)
  • 2C transfer to 2D, maybe to play, maybe show diamond values and something else
  • 2D - transfer to 2H, maybe to play, moybe to showing heart values and will show somethiong esle as well later
  • 2H - "good raise" to 2S
  • 2S - a spade fit and mildly preemptive with good raise use 2H

I think Ruben advances work will after a one level overcall, because you have Robson/Segal 2NT as "useful raise" or better, and you just substitute 2H for a 2C cue-bid in essesnce. So if you like them, play them.

Ben
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#3 User is offline   Chamaco 

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Posted 2004-August-09, 07:47

inquiry, on Aug 9 2004, 01:35 PM, said:

Rubens advances can work fine here.

For those unfamiliar with rubens advances, it is defined as starting at cue-bid (here 2C by advancer) to one less than the over called suit (here 2H). The bid is a transfer to the next higher suit....

So..

(1C)-1H-(pass)
  • 2C transfer to 2D, maybe to play, maybe show diamond values and something else

  • 2D - transfer to 2H, maybe to play, moybe to showing heart values and will show somethiong esle as well later

  • 2H - "good raise" to 2S

  • 2S - a spade fit and mildly preemptive with good raise use 2H
I think Ruben advances work will after a one level overcall, because you have Robson/Segal 2NT as "useful raise" or better, and you just substitute 2H for a 2C cue-bid in essesnce. So if  you like them, play them.

Ben

In this example it works fine, but I am still confused.

Let's forget that hand.
Suppose bidding goes
1D-(1S)-pass-?

And I have a hand that wants to transfer to CLUBS.
If I recall correctly this implies the use of 1NT as transfer bid.

Now here is the question: is the use of 1NT xfer compatible with Robson/Segal given the fact that:
- the other 2NT bid is taken for high card raise with high ODR
- simple cuebid guarantees a high card raise with low ODR
- jump cuebid is a mixed raise with 4+ trumps ?

If 1Nt is xfer to clubs, what should advancer bid with a misfittting 4432 with adequate stoppers and:

1) 11-12 hcp
2) 13-14 hcp ?
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Posted 2004-August-09, 07:56

The way I play Ruben transfers, you can not transfer to clubs on this auction. On 1(d)-1S-(p), your options are 1NT - natural, 2C - forcing, 2D- transfer to 2H, and 2H-good raise to 2S (or better) with three card support, and 2S - blocking.

You can play all transfer advances if you like, starting with the next bid, and including 1NT, but that is not rubens advances, at least not to my understanding. I find that after a one level overcall I NEVER want to give up 1NT natural. So using it as clubs is out of the question. There is nothing stopping you from playing 1NT as transfer to 2C.. if that is what you like.

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Posted 2004-August-10, 05:03

inquiry, on Aug 9 2004, 01:56 PM, said:

The way I play Ruben transfers, you can not transfer to clubs on this auction. On 1(d)-1S-(p), your options are 1NT - natural, 2C - forcing, 2D- transfer to 2H, and 2H-good raise to 2S (or better) with three card support, and 2S - blocking.

TY Ben.

One more question on this.
Suppose adopting Robson/Segal + Rubens advances (1Nt natural, no xfer to clubs).

(1d)-1S-(p)- ?

Does it make sense to lower the minimum range of 2H to constructive 3 card raise, about 8-9 hcp ?

In the original Robson/Segal scheme, the direct cuebid shows low ODR raise with limit+ values, so roughly a good 10+.
The direct raise is basically preemptive with 3 cards (high ODR mixed or preemptive raise will go via a FSJ or jump cue).

Hoiwver, in the Rob/Seg approach, the direct raise encompasses also rather decent hands such as a 8/9 hcp raise which is not good enough to cuebid.

The use of Rubens advances adds the possibuility to use a transfer to differentiate:
1) really preemptive 3 card raise (o-7 to a bad 8)
Direct raise
2) constructive raise (about 8/9 = 9 losers hand with low ODR)
Transfer then pass if pard does not super accept.
3) limit raise
Transfer then raise to 3M or bid new suit
4) GF raise
Transfer then bid new suit (in principle only invitational) or bid game


The questions are:
A ) Is it wise to transfer then bid again with an invitational hand (say 10-12) with Low ODR ?
Because of the low ODR, if pard has a minimum overcall, the 3 level may be too high


B ) Is it wise to put 3 different ranges (constructive, limit, GF) into the same bid ?
If the auction gets competitive, pard may not know what to do.
E.g.
1d-1S-(p)- 2H* (constructive+ raise)
4d-?

Pard here may well be in trouble holding
KQJxx-Axx-xx-xxx

He knows of a 5-3 fit but he cannot show that he has a non minimum overcall but not enough to force game opposite a limit hand (let alone a constructive raise).

Maybe my example is not the best (better examples are welcome) but I think the point is clear.
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Posted 2004-August-10, 05:22

I prefer not to split the hairs so finely. Your structure works fine if the oppoennts are very docile and pass over your multi-meaning 2H... but alas, the evil doer's never seem to pass when you want them too....

So, fit jump, jump cue-bid (mixed raise), and 2NT useful or better rauise is best in my opinion. Try to describe the shape and quality of your support as quickly and usefully as possible.

ben
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