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How to bid this ? In both "std" and ur preferred methods

#1 User is offline   Chamaco 

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Posted 2004-August-08, 05:46

Scoring: IMP

3H-p-p-?


Team match, you hold the above hand at unfav vuln.
West opens 3H preempt and it is passed to you.

I assume the reasonable bids are:
- double
- 4NT Unusual
- 5NT Unusual (if evaluating the hand as a sure slam)
- 4 of a minor
- 5 of a minor

I'd like to know what is

Question A

1) the "right" bid in "standard" methods (e.g. the one you'd do with a good pickup partner without discussion)
2) your bid in your preferred nmethods (and why your methods are better than std)


Question B

Would you bid the same if the Hand was one Ace stronger ?
E.g.

A- void- KQTxxx-AKQTxx
x- void- AKQTxx-AKQTxx

Question C
Is there a way to find the slam ?
North had

AKJTxx-xx-xx-Jxx
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#2 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2004-August-08, 06:20

I assume the reasonable bids are:

- double - no Mauro - not reasonable

- 4NT Unusual - yep fine.

- 5NT Unusual (if evaluating the hand as a sure slam) Can live with this

- 4 of a minor - no, best treated as non leaping, leaping Michaels

- 5 of a minor - no too definitive


I guess this leaves 4N. Now I would pass 5 minor - can't win them all.

Hand B I would bid 4N and raise 5m to 6.
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#3 User is offline   EricK 

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Posted 2004-August-08, 06:32

What about 4 and 5?

Eric
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#4 User is offline   inquiry 

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Posted 2004-August-08, 06:44

I am not certain 4NT is for only minors. Ths should be any two suiter. But on this hand 4NT is my choice.

Double is clearly wrong.

Four of a minor should show that minor and spades (I am with ron), and even if it didn't show the major, I wouldn't bid it here

five of minor is too much of a quess.

Five NT is ok, you pay your entry fee so you are allowed to take positions if you want. It is too high for me, but I bet most bidding 4NT are going to raise 5 of a minor to 6 anyway.


As for what is wrong with (4)-5, let me show you what happened to me when my partner tried a similiar carelss attempt yesterday


Scoring: IMP

West North East South
 -     4    5    Pass
 6    Pass  Pass  Dbl
 Pass  Pass  7    Dbl
 Pass  Pass  Pass  



If you bid 5 do you really think your partner who is well-heeled in spades will be able to bid wisely. Look how much easier my auction above would have been if parnter had bid 4NT instead of 5. I assumed he was ready for any bid or at least a spade bid since he didn't use 4NT.
--Ben--

#5 User is offline   EricK 

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Posted 2004-August-08, 07:09

The difference between overcalling 3 with 4, and overcalling 4 with 5 is considerable.

In the hand you quote, partner isn't strong enough to bid 5. He has 2 losers for a start.

Also, after (3) 4, if partner bids , and you correct to , you are showing a minor 2-suiter and the first round control.

Isn't that the difference between 4 and 4NT and between 5 and 5NT?

Eric
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#6 User is offline   luke warm 

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Posted 2004-August-08, 10:11

i kibbed the hand ben posted, and i got the feeling his partner knew almost as soon as he made the bid that he should have bid 4nt

4nt would be my bid here, also, and then i'd just bid the slam.. it's either pass or bid, and i don't know which is more correct, but i'd bid
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#7 User is offline   Chamaco 

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Posted 2004-August-08, 11:18

The_Hog, on Aug 8 2004, 12:20 PM, said:

- 4 of a minor -  no, best treated as non leaping, leaping Michaels

Issue 1:
Ron, could you clarify this Michaels/non leaping Michaels concept ?

I used to think that 4H over a 3H preempt should be Michaels, 55+ Spdes/minor of adequate strength.
Howeverm, this does not work well with a 3S preempt, as H has to be played at the 5 level then.
Is this the reason to play 4m as Michaels ?

And, if so, how do you deal with a minor single suiter ?

Issue 2:
Where can I find good comprehensive documentation on these defenses to 3M preempt ?
(eg how to bid all sort of 2 suiters and single suiters)

Issue 3:
What of all the above should be considered "standard" in an occasional partnership ?

Thanks all ! :)
"Bridge is like dance: technique's important but what really matters is not to step on partner's feet !"
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#8 User is offline   paulg 

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Posted 2004-August-08, 11:43

1) the "right" bid in "standard" methods (e.g. the one you'd do with a good pickup partner without discussion)
I prefer 4NT to show a slam-going two-suiter, but I am going to pass a 5/ bid.

2) your bid in your preferred methods (and why your methods are better than std)
I also play Leaping Michaels, so 4 would show a slam-going hand with the minors (4NT is a weaker hand for the minors).

Question C
Is there a way to find the slam ?

A good principle after a preempt is to seek the best result possible, not the best possible result. Actions that risk turning a positive score into a negative, like punting a slam here, are not long-term winners.
The Beer Card

I don't work for BBO and any advice is based on my BBO experience over the decades
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