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1♣-(Pass)-1♥-(1♠)
2♥-(Pass)-3♣
Would you expect 3♣ to be forcing? Do you think it should be forcing? For the purpose of this discussion 2♥ can be 3card support.
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Forcing or not?
#1
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Posted 2010-August-15, 16:29
♣ Veni, vidi, proficisci ♣
#2
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Posted 2010-August-15, 16:48
Yeh, at least in our world it is forcing because responder didn't have to bid at all. If spades had been raised, we play that 3C is not forcing.
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
#3
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Posted 2010-August-15, 17:01
I used to think that this should be forcing, but I don't anymore.
Michael Askgaard
#4
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Posted 2010-August-15, 17:36
If 2H promises 4 it's clearly forcing at least to 3H.
With 2H promising only 3, it's not clear to me what the best approach is. (That's why I play 2H promises 4, actually - that way I at least know what my system is.)
With 2H promising only 3, it's not clear to me what the best approach is. (That's why I play 2H promises 4, actually - that way I at least know what my system is.)
#5
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Posted 2010-August-15, 17:39
MFA, on Aug 15 2010, 06:01 PM, said:
I used to think that this should be forcing, but I don't anymore.
yeah, why would we want to invite when we are perfectly capable of masterminding the auction and just bid 4♥. And partner's opinion is of no consequence since we are such good masterminds
"Tell me of your home world, Usul"
the Freman, Chani from the move "Dune"
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."
George Bernard Shaw
the Freman, Chani from the move "Dune"
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."
George Bernard Shaw
#6
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Posted 2010-August-15, 20:07
pooltuna, on Aug 16 2010, 01:39 AM, said:
MFA, on Aug 15 2010, 06:01 PM, said:
I used to think that this should be forcing, but I don't anymore.
yeah, why would we want to invite when we are perfectly capable of masterminding the auction and just bid 4♥. And partner's opinion is of no consequence since we are such good masterminds
lol?
Michael Askgaard
#7
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Posted 2010-August-16, 09:08
Invitational but not forcing, opener passes with 3crd heart support in a normal opening hand. He bids 3 hearts with 4 and a minimum or else 4 hearts with 4 and max.
Olivier.
#8
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Posted 2010-August-16, 09:18
If you play support double, 2H show 4, so 3C should be forcing.
Looking for slam or telling partner what to do over 4S(unlikely here) is way more important than being able to play 3C instead of 3H.
If 2H can be 3 cards than its surely possible 54 or even 5-5 play better than 43.
Often when you knnow its the hand with 3 trumps that ruff 3H in 43 will play well but here it could easily be
3325 vs 2434 (2425) where 3H will play terribly.
Looking for slam or telling partner what to do over 4S(unlikely here) is way more important than being able to play 3C instead of 3H.
If 2H can be 3 cards than its surely possible 54 or even 5-5 play better than 43.
Often when you knnow its the hand with 3 trumps that ruff 3H in 43 will play well but here it could easily be
3325 vs 2434 (2425) where 3H will play terribly.
From Psych "I mean, Gus and I never see eye-to-eye on work stuff.
For instance, he doesn't like being used as a human shield when we're being shot at.
I happen to think it's a very noble way to meet one's maker, especially for a guy like him.
Bottom line is we never let that difference of opinion interfere with anything."
For instance, he doesn't like being used as a human shield when we're being shot at.
I happen to think it's a very noble way to meet one's maker, especially for a guy like him.
Bottom line is we never let that difference of opinion interfere with anything."
#9
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Posted 2010-August-16, 09:49
MFA, on Aug 16 2010, 04:07 AM, said:
pooltuna, on Aug 16 2010, 01:39 AM, said:
MFA, on Aug 15 2010, 06:01 PM, said:
I used to think that this should be forcing, but I don't anymore.
yeah, why would we want to invite when we are perfectly capable of masterminding the auction and just bid 4♥. And partner's opinion is of no consequence since we are such good masterminds
LOL
FYP
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Do not underestimate the power of the dark side. Or the ninth trumph.
Best Regards Ole Berg
_____________________________________
We should always assume 2/1 unless otherwise stated, because:
- If the original poster didn't bother to state his system, that means that he thinks it's obvious what he's playing. The only people who think this are 2/1 players.
Gnasher
Do not underestimate the power of the dark side. Or the ninth trumph.
Best Regards Ole Berg
_____________________________________
We should always assume 2/1 unless otherwise stated, because:
- If the original poster didn't bother to state his system, that means that he thinks it's obvious what he's playing. The only people who think this are 2/1 players.
Gnasher
#10
- Andy Bowles
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Posted 2010-August-16, 13:28
I've never thought this should be forcing. If it's forcing, a 4-4 invitation is unbiddable; if it's non-forcing, some game-forces are more awkward to bid, but no hand is completely unmanageble.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
#11
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Posted 2010-August-16, 14:47
I think having better methods is the answer to this but playing everything totally natural and raising on 3 sometimes I guess 3C should be NF.
Personally I always play support Xs, but if it was some uncontested auction or something I think you should play 1C 1H 2H 2S as an asking bid and then you should be able to stop in 3C if you had a 4-4 invite which allows 3C to be used as a slam try.
Personally I always play support Xs, but if it was some uncontested auction or something I think you should play 1C 1H 2H 2S as an asking bid and then you should be able to stop in 3C if you had a 4-4 invite which allows 3C to be used as a slam try.
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