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Suit combination !

#1 User is offline   bluecalm 

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Posted 2010-August-07, 04:17

You are in 6 without opponents bidding:



Lead is T which can be everything.
Your line ?
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#2 User is offline   JLOGIC 

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Posted 2010-August-07, 04:46

Heh, this is actually a very interesting suit combination in isolation and I wrote like 5 paragraphs about it but it probably would just derail the thread since this is about a bridge hand not a suit combo.

This is also a very interesting bridge hand. It deviates from the suit combo because we don't have 12 top tricks, and we're always going to need a ruff, menaing we can't always pick up 4-1 trumps even if we could in isolation.

This hand is made even more interesting by the possibility of a brilliancy prize worthy falsecard if we cash the SA from dummy of dropping an honor from Hx on our right. It might even be a super brilliancy prize to do so from QJx!

Why? Because if you do choose to start with the SA, and RHO plays an honor, your natural inclination should be to try and strip out the hand (possibly having to guess LHOs shape in the process). After doing so, if LHO has H9x of trumps left you can endplay him. What if trumps are 3-2? Well it won't matter, since RHO will have QJ tight of trumps and you'll be cold anyways...unless...they have made a brilliant falsecard.

Of course, in real life I wouldn't be worried about this, but it is nice to think about anyways.

If you play the spade ace and an honor doesnt drop on your right, you can just play a spade to the ten next (ducking if RHO plays an honor). You make now with QJxx onside if RHO has 3+ clubs.

If LHO drops an honor of course you're cold.

All of this doesn't mean starting with the spade ace is right, but I think it is because:

1) Most lines involving leading trumps towards your hand first are catering to stiff honor on your right, but we still have the chance of stripping out the hand an making it in that case.

2) Those lines seem to hurt us in cases where LHO has a stiff trump honor. For instance if we duck a trump completely, and then cash the ace getting the news, we are going to need to find RHO with 3+ clubs in order to make now.

So I would start with the spade ace planning to duck a spade next, unless RHO dropped an honor, then the play would get interesting.

edited to add some stuff on why i think starting with the spade ace is right

This post has been edited by JLOGIC: 2010-August-07, 04:48

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#3 User is offline   JLOGIC 

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Posted 2010-August-07, 04:49

Also if you think the suit combination of the trumps in isolation for 3 tricks is straight forward, what are you going to do if RHO inserts the 9? Think about how RHO might exploit you by inserting the 9 with H9xx, QJ9x, or just having stiff 9 depending on how you react. So it gets pretty interesting.
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#4 User is offline   JLOGIC 

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Posted 2010-August-07, 04:58

Also, I'd be careful when trying to strip the hand that you don't end up suffering an embarassing uppercut when RHO has QJ tight of trumps, and LHO has 9xx.

For this reason you might have to end up playing LHO for 4432.
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#5 User is offline   JLOGIC 

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Posted 2010-August-07, 05:07

If we lead a trump towards our hand we:

-Pick up stiff honor on our right (2 combos)
-Lose to QJxx (no 9) always (1 combo)
-Pick up stiff honor on our left when RHO has 3+ clubs (what are the odds of this?) [2 combos]

If we cash the trump ace we:

-Pick up stiff honor on our left (2 combos)
-Pick up QJxx (no 9) on our right as long as RHO doesnt have a stiff club
-Pick up stiff honor on our right when we can strip out the hand and endplay LHO (probably requiring 4432 shape on our left)

The wild card is stiff 9 on our right. Does leading towards our hand pick that up? Let's say yes, and that RHO won't falsecard the 9 from H9xx (probably a real life expectation). Also note that QJ9x is identical in both (RHO will split and we need him to have 3+ clubs).

So lets add 1 combo of stiff 9 for leading a trump towards our hand.

Looks like we pick up 3 extra combos outright, plus RHO having 4 spades and 3+ clubs.

Cashing the spade ace picks up 3 combos outright, plus RHO having stiff honor and us stripping out the hand correctly.

It seems like RHO having H9xx of spades and 3+ clubs is more likely than LHO having H9xx of spades and 4432. So assuming RHO cannot falsecard with the 9 holding H9xx when we lead a trump off the board, leading a trump off the board is slightly better, and I was wrong as usual!

Anyone? At least I was right that it comes down to the H9xx falsecard from RHO.
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#6 User is offline   bluecalm 

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Posted 2010-August-07, 05:28

Btw this is real hand from univ world championship in Taiwan:

http://ubridge2010.nsysu.edu.tw/result/mat...=4&tbid=4&bid=1 hand 13

Our declarer who is one the best young players in the world (and represented Poland at last ME) guess spades but he was in 7. I don't know his reasoning.
Chinese declarer played A and went down in 6.
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#7 User is offline   JLOGIC 

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Posted 2010-August-07, 05:32

bluecalm, on Aug 7 2010, 06:28 AM, said:

Btw this is real hand from univ world championship in Taiwan:

http://ubridge2010.nsysu.edu.tw/result/mat...=4&tbid=4&bid=1 hand 13

Our declarer who is one the best young players in the world (and represented Poland at last ME) guess spades but he was in 7. I don't know his reasoning.
Chinese declarer played A and went down in 6.

I assume it was Kalita?

As I've told him before, he plays them pretty well but he bids so badly it cannot make up for it :D (just kidding of course, kalitas a good friend and a terrific player).

In 7 guessing it seems really bizarre, you have to play trumps for 0 losers to make so obv you start by leading the ace. Do you know how the play went?

LHO was indeed 4432, so you should still make 6 even after leading the SA imo.

Edit: Oh yeah I know this hand btw, the US declarer went down after cashing the SA, I think he didn't think of the endplay after that. The other guys played 6N which the vugraph commentators were claiming was a better contract, but that's not very clear to me at all (I would have thought 6S is better tbh).
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#8 User is offline   bluecalm 

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Posted 2010-August-07, 05:35

Yeah it was Kalita.
I don't know how the play went. I was talking with my semiregular pd which played on other table (W Gawel) (redds on bbo, we are in bidding contest together).
He said Kalita "guessed" spades.
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#9 User is offline   JLOGIC 

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Posted 2010-August-07, 05:39

bluecalm, on Aug 7 2010, 06:35 AM, said:

Yeah it was Kalita.
I don't know how the play went. I was talking with my semiregular pd which played on other table (W Gawel) (redds on bbo, we are in bidding contest together).
He said Kalita "guessed" spades.

My best guess would be that he decided if he started with the ace and it went small small honor, he was going to play for QJ tight anyways (the other line being playing a spade to the 7, and then trying to ruff a club). I suppose this is correct, obv QJ tight is half as likely as stiff honor, but stiff honor requires the hand with long spades having 3+ clubs.

So he probably decided he would play for QJ tight anyways so he led low to the king, and then led one off dummy and they split with the 9 (maybe).

Kalita is not only one of the best young players in the world, hes one of the best players in the world, so I'll trust his judgement :D

Anyways this hand is obviously different in 7 than in 6, I'd really be curious to see how Kalita chose to play it in 6! Too bad his bidding is so bad that we'll never know! (jk jk)
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