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Does anyone play 1-2-3-Stop anymore?

#41 User is offline   junyi_zhu 

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Posted 2010-July-21, 17:43

awm, on Jul 21 2010, 11:15 PM, said:

junyi_zhu, on Jul 21 2010, 05:42 PM, said:

Even against weak players, it's unnecessary IMO. First, both have passed; Second, they may balance for a very small amount of time; Third, if they are really fans to balance, you can always trap with some pretty good hands once in a while to make big penalties against them at 3 level. Fourth, if they balance, they may play in the wrong suit and you may want to actually defend it. So bidding 3M only achieves when they balance and they can find their best fit which you don't want to defend, even at that time, you can still bid 3S if you  don't want to defend.

Well, the tradeoffs are that:

By balancing opponents may find a good lead against 3 when they'd otherwise be guessing.

Opponents may find a way to compete to the four-level after their balance.

Opponents have an easier time doubling 3 after the balance pushes you there.

------> With all this said, I'm not a big fan of this style. Certainly it can sometimes help you to bid to the three-level when you're not forced there (for the reasons above), but I think opponents sell to two of a major just often enough (and 3M goes down just often enough) that I'm better off waiting to be pushed rather than bidding up to 3M on my own. While the point has been made that you have a lot of other ways to try for game in a major, the big advantage of 1M-2M-3M as a game try is that it doesn't disclose much information to the opponents on defense.

Well, those are minor concerns.
Lead directing value is never a big concern here, because the frequency of the balance is rather low. Penalty doubles are also not important when you hold a 9 card fit playing a partial. If they can find a playable spot at 4th level, they should probably act earlier. 1M 2M 3M as an invitation is indeed not bad IMO, because often, you don't want to bid a game very clearly.
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#42 User is offline   rogerclee 

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Posted 2010-July-21, 19:34

I also want to add that when you are 6133 or something, they do not automatically go to your stiff! Sometimes they play in your 3-bagger, and now you usually will just want to defend.
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#43 User is offline   mike777 

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Posted 2010-July-21, 21:23

I am much more worried opp have a game...cold game rather than they push us one level too high....

sure 1-2-3

I got a zillion other game invites..

In my case I am really worried that opp have game...cold game....

in hearts very very often...
in sp less often. as other mention...you may buy it in 2 level

but ya in general I try to bid to Lawfull level as quik as possible....

Note it seems to me that really good players really try and stop you from playing at 2 level when we got a 9 card fit.
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#44 User is offline   MickyB 

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Posted 2010-July-21, 21:59

hanp, on Jul 21 2010, 09:10 PM, said:

MickyB, on Jul 21 2010, 12:30 PM, said:

hanp, on Jul 21 2010, 11:26 AM, said:

There is at least one good reason for doing this even when holding spades.  At matchpoints, if you pass and then bid 3 after they compete, they will be better placed to double you.

RHO may be able to indicate a lead also.

Thanks for the credit, I'll take it!

Lol. I was too lazy to get the quote from Gnasher's post, didn't realise it would get attributed to anyone. Sorry Andy.

As for 1-2-3 being a game-invite being old-fashioned - In the UK it is the opposite, traditionally this sequence was preemptive but now some play it as an invite of some description.
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#45 User is offline   peachy 

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Posted 2010-July-22, 01:10

MickyB, on Jul 21 2010, 10:59 PM, said:

hanp, on Jul 21 2010, 09:10 PM, said:

MickyB, on Jul 21 2010, 12:30 PM, said:

hanp, on Jul 21 2010, 11:26 AM, said:

There is at least one good reason for doing this even when holding spades.  At matchpoints, if you pass and then bid 3 after they compete, they will be better placed to double you.

RHO may be able to indicate a lead also.

Thanks for the credit, I'll take it!

Lol. I was too lazy to get the quote from Gnasher's post, didn't realise it would get attributed to anyone. Sorry Andy.

As for 1-2-3 being a game-invite being old-fashioned - In the UK it is the opposite, traditionally this sequence was preemptive but now some play it as an invite of some description.

Then the trend is the opposite in England then B)
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