[Hanoi5]

They were red and you were white:

Scoring: XIMP

---

Pa-3♥-X-Pa
3NT-All Pass

Down only two.

[ArtK78]

I understand the knee-jerk reaction to double 3♥, but I would rate the chances of making 3NT opposite a passed partner at slim to none. So then the question is whether the pull to 4♣ shows a big hand.

If one forsees this problem, the 4♣ overcall has a lot more going for it than the double. Besides, if partner cannot volunteer spades on his own, it is probably unlikely that 4♠ is going to be a good contract.

Pass also has to be considered, given that the partnership has no more than 23 HCP between them. But, as you may be operating with a 30 point deck, 23 HCP may be more than enough to make 10 or 11 tricks in a suit contract.

As for West's 3NT call, I don't see what reasonable alternative he has. He has a heart stopper (or so he thinks) and a source of tricks. Surely it is not unreasonable to try for the 9 trick game.

I vote 75% to East for an ill-conceived takeout double, and 25% to West because he could have gotten it right by bidding diamonds.

[billw55]

I think 3NT is bad. RHO will have one of the heart honors quite often. And partner has not promised a moose. I see little wrong with 4♦.

On the other hand the takeout double isn't so great either. Overall I give 2/3 west and 1/3 east.

[ArtK78]

billw55, on Jul 21 2010, 01:03 PM, said:

I think 3NT is bad.  RHO will have one of the heart honors quite often.  And partner has not promised a moose.  I see little wrong with 4♦.

On the other hand the takeout double isn't so great either.  Overall I give 2/3 west and 1/3 east.

The 3♥ opening was red against white at IMPs. I would guess that the 3♥ bidder will have the AK of hearts about 80%+ of the time.

Besides, it is not impossible for partner's takeout double to have a heart card.

[whereagles]

Dbl is rather optimistic opposite a passed pard. But 3NT is even more.

[billw55]

ArtK78, on Jul 21 2010, 01:09 PM, said:

The 3♥ opening was red against white at IMPs. I would guess that the 3♥ bidder will have the AK of hearts about 80%+ of the time.

Not at my club

[aguahombre]

not important whether opener has both hearts.....u aint making 3nt

[Pict]

I think East should pass, and West is fortunate to have a 4D bid.

[jdonn]

No blame.

[mikeh]

I think E was too aggressive doubling...I think it close opposite an unpassed hand and flat out wrong given partner's passed hand status.

We have minimal hcp and short spades. Moreover, given that partner is a passed hand, there is at least some chance that LHO is about to raise hearts...and our double may given away the trump suit....as, indeed, it would have on this hand had N declared any number of hearts.

Too many people seem to think that it is a crime to pass with 12 or 13 counts, almost regardless of the auction.

As for West....I have sympathy, because if he doesn't bid 3N now, it will never happen. But I think his hand is too light....there is way too much chance that even if he has a heart stopper (which is unclear) he can't run 8 side winners before N gets in. So put me down for a timid 4♦.

Were the vulnerability reversed, I'd like 3N better....more upside from a red game, more chance that partner has a good hand at unfavourable opposite a passed hand, etc

[pooltuna]

mikeh, on Jul 21 2010, 03:30 PM, said:

I think E was too aggressive doubling...I think it close opposite an unpassed hand and flat out wrong given partner's passed hand status.

We have minimal hcp and short spades. Moreover, given that partner is a passed hand, there is at least some chance that LHO is about to raise hearts...and our double may given away the trump suit....as, indeed, it would have on this hand had N declared any number of hearts.

Too many people seem to think that it is a crime to pass with 12 or 13 counts, almost regardless of the auction.

As for West....I have sympathy, because if he doesn't bid 3N now, it will never happen. But I think his hand is too light....there is way too much chance that even if he has a heart stopper (which is unclear) he can't run 8 side winners before N gets in. So put me down for a timid 4♦.

Were the vulnerability reversed, I'd like 3N better....more upside from a red game, more chance that partner has a good hand at unfavourable opposite a passed hand, etc

This sounds pretty good to me. BTW looks like another adage has bitten the dust. That being "It takes a minimal opening hand opposite a minimal opening hand to make game" If you believe that is the ♥ void worth that much?

[the hog]

Hanoi5, on Jul 22 2010, 12:31 AM, said:

They were red and you were white:

Scoring: XIMP

---

Pa-3♥-X-Pa
3NT-All Pass

Down only two.

Partner is a passed hand already? What is your upside in doubling, especially with only 3S and a hand that will likely be forced at trick one? A poor double!

[MickyB]

3NT looks utterly normal and double looks right as well. Also, isn't it quite likely we will be -140 if East passes?

[mike777]

Hanoi5, on Jul 21 2010, 12:31 PM, said:

They were red and you were white:

<!-- EASTWEST begin --><table border='1'> <tr> <td> <table> <tr> <td>Dealer:</td> <td> West </td> </tr> <tr> <td>Vul:</td> <td> N/S </td> </tr> <tr> <td>Scoring:</td> <td> XIMP </td> </tr> </table> </td> <td> <table> <tr> <th> <table> <tr> <th class='spades'>♠</th> <td> T2 </td> </tr> <tr> <th class='hearts'>♥</th> <td> Q94 </td> </tr> <tr> <th class='diamonds'>♦</th> <td> AJT43 </td> </tr> <tr> <th class='clubs'>♣</th> <td> J73 </td> </tr> </table> </th> <th> <table> <tr> <th class='spades'>♠</th> <td> AK9 </td> </tr> <tr> <th class='hearts'>♥</th> <td>  </td> </tr> <tr> <th class='diamonds'>♦</th> <td> Q976 </td> </tr> <tr> <th class='clubs'>♣</th> <td> KT6542 </td> </tr> </table> </th> </tr> </table> </td> <td>  </td> </tr> </table><!-- EASTWEST end -->

Pa-3♥-X-Pa
3NT-All Pass

Down only two.

pass pard could not open......i only got 3s....no x...here.

[jdonn]

East has a playable game on the actual hand opposite a balanced 8 count with a wasted heart honor and people are asking what's the upside in doubling. Ok then!

[hanp]

jdonn ftw

[gwnn]

Nice gutsy bidding I think. I like both actions.

[655321]

OP has shown us just 2 hands for this ATB.

I wonder what the comments would be if we knew all four hands.

Would the passers be so critical of the horrendous result of -100 if the alternative were -140? Or are EW cold for game in a minor, if so passing throughout is not an obvious route to getting there. I think we can be pretty sure that EW do make 5♣ and/or 5♦, otherwise what would be the point of a post asking us to ATB for bidding a game and scoring -100 when the game doesn't make instead of defending a partscore for -140 or +100.

Anyway, I think that double by East is completely routine, and passing instead would be bad. West has the interesting decision, and very reasonably tried 3NT. Perhaps 4♦ is a better bid, my guess is that it is not, but I don't know.

[mcphee]

With vulnerable opps it would be a consideration for the hand that bid 3NT to have passed the dble in many cases. Perhaps the dble hand should have considered moving to 4C based on this thought. As Art points out, would this 4C bid now show some big hand. I have never really considered this bidding problem.

Looking at e/w hands it seems that 5 of either minor is not at all unreasonable and is a contract you would like to be able to reach. The double is aggressive, but the fact is this is the only chance E will have to let his side enter the auction and failing to bid could easily lead to a missed game. If E does bid what else makes any sense other than dble?

The west player was up against a difficult choice with the option of passing, 3N, and 4 or 5D. Bidding 4D partner is going to pass most days and at imps you would hate to be there if 5 had play.

[hanp]

mcphee, on Jul 22 2010, 10:53 AM, said:

With vulnerable opps it would be a consideration for the hand that bid 3NT to have passed the dble in many cases.

Strongly disagree, especially with vulnerable opponents.