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Distributional hand over opponent's preempt

Poll: Your action? (32 member(s) have cast votes)

Your action?

  1. Pass (10 votes [31.25%])

    Percentage of vote: 31.25%

  2. 3H (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  3. 3S (3 votes [9.38%])

    Percentage of vote: 9.38%

  4. 4D (14 votes [43.75%])

    Percentage of vote: 43.75%

  5. 4H (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  6. 4S (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  7. Other (5 votes [15.62%])

    Percentage of vote: 15.62%

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#21 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2010-July-19, 18:22

Pict, on Jul 20 2010, 05:59 AM, said:

I don't play bids over pre-empts as scientific, so 4D is clear for me, because it probably leads naturally to a good outcome.

I think you mean, "Because it might lead to a good outcome".

In my opinion bidding with a hand this light is more likely to lead to a poor outcome.
"The King of Hearts a broadsword bears, the Queen of Hearts a rose." W. H. Auden.
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#22 User is offline   Pict 

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Posted 2010-July-19, 18:50

The_Hog, on Jul 19 2010, 07:22 PM, said:

Pict, on Jul 20 2010, 05:59 AM, said:

I don't play bids over pre-empts as scientific, so 4D is clear for me, because it probably leads naturally to a good outcome.

I think you mean, "Because it might lead to a good outcome".

In my opinion bidding with a hand this light is more likely to lead to a poor outcome.

I meant probably. I think 5-5 hands play very well. Rightly or wrongly I'm more worried about game than slam.

I've no problem with you disagreeing with any or all of this.
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#23 User is offline   hanp 

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Posted 2010-July-19, 19:47

gnasher, on Jul 19 2010, 06:13 PM, said:

If you double and partner bids 3♥ or 3♠, are you tempted to raise?

I would be interested in your thoughts on this ugly hand.
and the result can be plotted on a graph.
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#24 User is offline   y66 

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Posted 2010-July-19, 20:03

Put me down for a frisky 4D.
If you lose all hope, you can always find it again -- Richard Ford in The Sportswriter
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#25 User is offline   quiddity 

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Posted 2010-July-19, 21:13

4D
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#26 User is offline   655321 

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Posted 2010-July-19, 22:30

4♦, if I was not allowed to do this I would double.
That's impossible. No one can give more than one hundred percent. By definition that is the most anyone can give.
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#27 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2010-July-20, 03:28

hanp, on Jul 20 2010, 02:47 AM, said:

I would be interested in your thoughts on this ugly hand.

I don't have many - that's partly why I was asking questions - but here is one:

Suppose that we doubled, planning to:
- Raise 3M to 4M
- Pass 3NT
- Convert 4♣ to 4♦, belatedly showing the majors

Then we'd still get the upside of double - getting to 3NT or defending 3♦x when it's right - but we wouldn't have to play 4♣ opposite a (32)35 shape.

There are two problems with this idea:
- This hand probably isn't good enough.
- Everybody thinks that dbl-4♣-4♦ should be a slam try, because of all the 24-counts they get dealt.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#28 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2010-July-20, 03:46

I was also looking for Dbl, don't like the alternatives. We have to do 'something' because partner may pass with a good hand and some ♦s.
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#29 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2010-July-20, 03:47

woo hoo bid our shape yay 4♦
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
      George Carlin
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#30 User is offline   Codo 

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Posted 2010-July-20, 04:26

I like Mikes reasoning for 4 ♦, but I will still deliver my partner a little bid more for this bid. I would pass and hate it.
Kind Regards

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More system is not the answer...
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#31 User is offline   hanp 

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Posted 2010-July-20, 06:18

I dealt some hands yesterday and came to the conclusion that I like 4D better. There are some hands where we get overboard but there are more hands where partner has a 3-card major and we miss (the right) game after doubling or bidding 3S.
and the result can be plotted on a graph.
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#32 User is offline   ArtK78 

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Posted 2010-July-20, 13:42

Here are the North-South hands:

Scoring: IMP


It seems that any action by South other than a pass in direct seat over 3♦ will get NS to game in spades. But if South passes over 3♦ North has a problem with Kxx of diamonds and heart shortness.

I chose 3♠ over 3♦ and that worked well on this hand. It did not occur to me to bid 4♦ on such a light hand, but I have been convinced by many posters that 4♦ is probably the best action to take on the hand.

We won a nonvul game swing on the hand, as our opps did not find 4♠ at the other table.

By the way, RHO had QJTxxxx of diamonds and out. Both minor suit aces and the ♥K (along with QTx of spades) were in LHO's hand.
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#33 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2010-July-20, 17:16

I think the overbid of 4♦ is more or less mandatory. Unless pard has a decent 15 or so, he won't bid over 3♦ given his expected 3-4 diamonds, so we have to bid now or risk missing a cold game.
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#34 User is offline   H_KARLUK 

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Posted 2010-July-20, 22:47

4♦ (Mich cb for Majors)
We all know that light travels faster than sound. That's why certain people appear bright until you hear them speak. Quoted by Albert Einstein.
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#35 User is offline   JLOGIC 

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Posted 2010-July-21, 06:15

I don't hate 3S FWIW, I would go 4D>3S>X though.
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#36 User is offline   WellSpyder 

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Posted 2010-July-21, 09:16

I wish I had read this post yesterday. Last night I faced this decision:
Scoring: IMP

3♦ P P ?

Are the considerations much the same as in the OP? Certainly my worries over eg bidding 4♦ over a 4♣ response from partner if I doubled were similar to those expressed by Gnasher. In the end I decided that I didn't want to miss a Vul game and that it was worth getting to the right suit even if at the wrong level, so I risked 4♦, but without much conviction...
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#37 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2010-July-21, 09:27

no, Axx is different from x, I'd pass your hand.
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
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#38 User is offline   hanp 

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Posted 2010-July-21, 09:44

I'd definitely pass that one.
and the result can be plotted on a graph.
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#39 User is offline   JLOGIC 

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Posted 2010-July-21, 09:54

I'd bid 4D on that hand
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#40 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2010-July-21, 10:24

Yeh, Wellspyder's situation is very different. Balancing chair, not to worry about CHO going to the moon.
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
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