[twcho]

Scoring: IMP

W　　N　　E　　S
　 　 1♥　 2♣　 P
2♥　 3♥　 P　　P
3N　 AP　　

---

7♣, 7♦ and 7N all make. Where went wrong? How to assign the blames?

[gwnn]

divided between North and West in some proportion, not far from 50 50 I would say.

[JLOGIC]

If you play 2D forcing over 2C, that would work much better (in fact you would probably get to 7).

I play 2D as non forcing though so I would have to bid 2H also. Seems like a tough hand, I don't fault this auction.

[Cyberyeti]

JLOGIC, on Jul 20 2010, 04:59 AM, said:

If you play 2D forcing over 2C, that would work much better (in fact you would probably get to 7).

I play 2D as non forcing though so I would have to bid 2H also. Seems like a tough hand, I don't fault this auction.

Yup, I play 2♦ as forcing, so after 3♥ followed by 4♦ (presumably opener will only overcall 2♥) we're on our way to 7.

If you don't play 2♦ forcing, you have a problem.

Red v green though, what's the minimum you expect for a 2♣ overcall with a suit no better than KJ10... ? while you could be off 2 top diamonds, in terms of the number of tricks you have, you are surely close to 12, so I feel inclined to do something more than 3N.

That said, even if what you do is a quantitative 4N it's not 100% clear that partner accepts.

[jdonn]

I really don't think east should pass 3NT, partner bothered to cuebid first and obviously may have been under pressure to bid it. Maybe I'm resulting based on both hands but I don't think so, I would bid over it as east. I doubt I'd reach 7 in any case but who knows, and certainly would find 6.

[whereagles]

No slam after opps open 1x, so no blame.

[peachy]

I play new suit is forcing by UPH on our overcall so we would not have had much trouble with this one. Tough hand. In this auction, over North's 3H bid, what do you all play as the weakest/strongest actions? Is bidding weaker than Pass or the other way round?

At least if the level were lower and we would not be bypassing 3NT, then I would think rebidding one's suit is the weakest action and Pass more encouraging?

[JLOGIC]

jdonn, on Jul 20 2010, 10:42 AM, said:

I really don't think east should pass 3NT, partner bothered to cuebid first

Partner probably cuebid first because he had 4 spades. We only have 2 of them. Are you really suggesting some other auction from partner with a hand like KJTx AQx xxxx Qx or similar?

Partner could even have 5 spades assuming 2S would be non forcing, and then choose to bid 3N since 3S will endplay you with no heart stopper.

[jdonn]

JLOGIC, on Jul 20 2010, 12:23 PM, said:

jdonn, on Jul 20 2010, 10:42 AM, said:

I really don't think east should pass 3NT, partner bothered to cuebid first

Partner probably cuebid first because he had 4 spades. We only have 2 of them. Are you really suggesting some other auction from partner with a hand like KJTx AQx xxxx Qx or similar?

Partner could even have 5 spades assuming 2S would be non forcing, and then choose to bid 3N since 3S will endplay you with no heart stopper.

Worst case he can always bid 4NT over 4♦ and you are one level higher. Maybe it isn't perfect but I've really convinced myself east should pull. I mean maybe this hand should be instructive, it shows us that we could even be missing a grand by passing (even if partner has the club queen less), I don't like that!

Also a suit could just be making game while 3NT is down, like if partner has this hand with Qx of clubs.

I don't think anyone was terrible, passing is not an abnormal thing to do. But I don't think it's best.

[JLOGIC]

jdonn, on Jul 20 2010, 12:26 PM, said:

JLOGIC, on Jul 20 2010, 12:23 PM, said:

jdonn, on Jul 20 2010, 10:42 AM, said:

I really don't think east should pass 3NT, partner bothered to cuebid first

Partner probably cuebid first because he had 4 spades. We only have 2 of them. Are you really suggesting some other auction from partner with a hand like KJTx AQx xxxx Qx or similar?

Partner could even have 5 spades assuming 2S would be non forcing, and then choose to bid 3N since 3S will endplay you with no heart stopper.

Worst case he can always bid 4NT over 4♦ and you are one level higher. Maybe it isn't perfect but I've really convinced myself east should pull. I mean maybe this hand should be instructive, it shows us that we could even be missing a grand by passing (even if partner has the club queen less), I don't like that!

I don't think anyone was terrible, passing is not an abnormal thing to do. But I don't think it's best.

Yes that is clearly the lesson to be learned.

[gnasher]

peachy, on Jul 20 2010, 06:11 PM, said:

In this auction, over North's 3H bid, what do you all play as the weakest/strongest actions?  Is bidding weaker than Pass or the other way round?

2♥ forced us only to the 3♣ level, so we're allowed to pass out 3♥. Hence pass is the weakest action.

Quote

At least if the level were lower and we would not be bypassing 3NT, then I would think rebidding one's suit is the weakest action and Pass more encouraging?

What matters, I think, isn't whether you're bypassing 3NT, but whether you were already forced to this level. For example, after

  1♦ 1♥ pass 2♦
  2♠

Pass would be non-forcing, so any action shows extras, even though it would be below 3NT.

In auctions where you are below the level you were already forced to, I think it's normal, as well as obviously best, to play that an immediate bid is weaker than a pass. Not everyone agrees, though.

[inquiry]

twcho, on Jul 20 2010, 04:48 AM, said:

Scoring: IMP

W　　N　　E　　S
　 　 1♥　 2♣　 P
2♥　 3♥　 P　　P
3N　 AP　　

---

7♣, 7♦ and 7N all make. Where went wrong? How to assign the blames?

This one should have been submitted to our bidding contest... darn it.... I wonder if anybody has seen it yet? If not I could squeeze it into round two....

[cherdanno]

I forgot the hand already you can use it.

[H_KARLUK]

twcho, on Jul 20 2010, 05:48 AM, said:

Scoring: IMP

W　　N　　E　　S
　 　 1♥　 2♣　 P
2♥　 3♥　 P　　P
3N　 AP　　

---

7♣, 7♦ and 7N all make. Where went wrong? How to assign the blames?

1♥
2♣-2♦
2♥
3♥-4N

[cloa513]

Definitely East, partner bid him although he was a minimum and he's way better than that. West could have bid 3NT direct over 2C so this much stronger.
After 3NT, 4D (must be forcing), 5NT, 7NT.

[the hog]

Some of these posts are definitely resulting after seeing all 4 hands. Assuming you don't play 2D as forcing:
West has a nice 16 count and partner has overcalled 2C vul. What can pd have except very good Clubs? So assume 6 C tricks. It is the D fit that makes this hand, I don't know, could West maybe bid 3D rather than 2 if that is treated as fit showing or similar? That should get you there, (6), as well.

[hanp]

Jump to 3D on queen fifth you mean?

Agree that some are resulting.

[ONEferBRID]

twcho, on Jul 20 2010, 04:48 AM, said:

Scoring: IMP

W　　N　　E　　S
　 　 1♥　 2♣　 P
2♥　 3♥　 P　　P
3N　 AP　　

---

7♣, 7♦ and 7N all make. Where went wrong? How to assign the blames?

This hand might be a poster child for 2D as forcing.

Playing Rubens Transfer Advances (which it seems hasn't received widespread popularity) , all suit bids BELOW the cuebid ( 2H! ) are forcing. Thus, the 2D bid by West would be forcing and the problem is solved here.

[jdonn]

There is an accusation of resulting from someone who wants to reach slam by making a fit jump with Qxxxx of one suit and a doubleton in the other?

Frankly btw I think I would have duplicated east's actions at the table. But this thread made me think more about the auction and I have convinced myself that it's wrong. If the west hand minus the queen of clubs is a grand, or minus an ace of hearts or clubs is a slam, and in the second case doesn't even make 3NT, then maybe east should be thinking about pulling.

[cherdanno]

The_Hog, on Jul 21 2010, 03:03 AM, said:

Some of these posts are definitely resulting after seeing all 4 hands. Assuming you don't play 2D as forcing:
West has a nice 16 count and partner has overcalled 2C vul. What can pd have except very good Clubs? So assume 6 C tricks. It is the D fit that makes this hand, I don't know, could West maybe bid 3D rather than 2 if that is treated as fit showing or similar? That should get you there, (6), as well.

Do you jump to 3D to show your great diamond suit, your great club support, or your lack of major suit values?