[Phil]

Last board of a long day at the club.

---

We bid:

1♦ - 1♠
2♦ - 3N

and made 7 on a heart lead.

Maybe you don't like 3N. Fair enough. Can you concoct a reasonable auction to 6♦?

[JLOGIC]

3N is a huge LOL bid*

*I only call it a bid since technically it is.

[kayin801]

1♦-1♠
2♦-2♥ (catchall force, planning to show a GF with ♦ support)
2NT-3♦ and now opener's hand is nice with controls in every suit of one sort or another
3♥ cue and now responder is pumped with his extras and little wastage in spades. I think I'd drive to 6♦ from here. Maybe:
.... 3♠
4♣-4♦
4♥ (1430 for me, 4NT if you prefer) - 4NT
5♣-6♦ (Q, nothing else I haven't already shown)

Basically, opener is happier after 3♦ and responder is happier after opener shows that he/she is happy.

[JLOGIC]

kayin801, on Jul 12 2010, 12:11 AM, said:

1♦-1♠
2♦-2♥ (catchall force, planning to show a GF with ♦ support)
2NT-3♦ and now opener's hand is nice with controls in every suit of one sort or another
3♥ cue and now responder is pumped with his extras and little wastage in spades. I think I'd drive to 6♦ from here. Maybe:
.... 3♠
4♣-4♦
4♥ (1430 for me, 4NT if you prefer) - 4NT
5♣-6♦ (Q, nothing else I haven't already shown)

Basically, opener is happier after 3♦ and responder is happier after opener shows that he/she is happy.

Winner, up through 3H is automatic after that it shouldn't be too hard

[jdonn]

I like that auction too. And the jlogic quote is one of the all time great forums quotes. "Maybe you don't like 3NT" would also be a great quote if it had been meant as sarcasm.

[Cascade]

Phil, on Jul 12 2010, 05:00 PM, said:

Maybe you don't like 3N.

Underbid!

Whatever is forcing. I see 2♥ has been suggested above. I usually play a forcing 2NT on this auction.

1♦ 1♠
2♦ 2NT*
3♦ 3♥** shows a diamond fit since natural hearts will go through a natural 2♥ last round
...

again opener loves his hand now.

[jdonn]

Cascade, on Jul 12 2010, 12:41 AM, said:

Phil, on Jul 12 2010, 05:00 PM, said:

Maybe you don't like 3N.

Underbid!

Whatever is forcing. I see 2♥ has been suggested above. I usually play a forcing 2NT on this auction.

1♦ 1♠
2♦ 2NT*
3♦ 3♥** shows a diamond fit since natural hearts will go through a natural 2♥ last round
...

again opener loves his hand now.

Why would opener bid 3♦ on that auction instead of 3NT, has he not already shown 6 diamonds and he has scattered honors all over with the unbid suits well stopped?

[JLOGIC]

I am a big fan of 2N forcing. The way I play it it's always with a diamond fit, and never with 5 spades. Hands with 5 spades bid 2H.

Playing that I would bid:

1D 1S
2D 2N
3S* 4H
4N etc

3S=spade shortness
4H=cue
4N=keycard

I think the natural auction works better though (2H 2N 3D 3H).

[mike777]

Phil, on Jul 12 2010, 12:00 AM, said:

Last board of a long day at the club.

---

We bid:

1♦ - 1♠
2♦ - 3N

and made 7 on a heart lead.

Maybe you don't like 3N. Fair enough. Can you concoct a reasonable auction to 6♦?

no

understand getting to 3nt

[Phil]

JLOGIC, on Jul 12 2010, 12:10 AM, said:

3N is a huge LOL bid*

*I only call it a bid since technically it is.

I know, I made the 3N call. It deserves a LOL.

My only excuse was it was the last board, and I wanted to get the hell out of there.

[jdonn]

In fairness, that's the best possible excuse for that bid.

[mich-b]

kayin801, on Jul 12 2010, 12:11 AM, said:

1♦-1♠
2♦-2♥ (catchall force, planning to show a GF with ♦ support)

How do those who play this way (2♥ does not promiss ♥s) , sort out things when opener has 4♥s and raises?
Would 3♣ in this auction be a "catchall" as well ? Do you tend to bid your better fragment?

And if 2♥ is not GF , wouldn't opener bid 3NT with his maximum rather than presumably non forcing 2NT?

[JLOGIC]

mich-b, on Jul 12 2010, 01:27 AM, said:

kayin801, on Jul 12 2010, 12:11 AM, said:

1♦-1♠
2♦-2♥ (catchall force, planning to show a GF with ♦ support)

How do those who play this way (2♥ does not promiss ♥s) , sort out things when opener has 4♥s and raises?
Would 3♣ in this auction be a "catchall" as well ? Do you tend to bid your better fragment?

And if 2♥ is not GF , wouldn't opener bid 3NT with his maximum rather than presumably non forcing 2NT?

This and many other reasons is why 2H has to be a GF. I mean for the reason alone that partner has to bid 3H with a min or max with hearts (cant jump to 4 when 2H doesnt show hearts), and just the fact that jumping around is so bad...

[Cascade]

jdonn, on Jul 12 2010, 05:47 PM, said:

Cascade, on Jul 12 2010, 12:41 AM, said:

Phil, on Jul 12 2010, 05:00 PM, said:

Maybe you don't like 3N.

Underbid!

Whatever is forcing. I see 2♥ has been suggested above. I usually play a forcing 2NT on this auction.

1♦ 1♠
2♦ 2NT*
3♦ 3♥** shows a diamond fit since natural hearts will go through a natural 2♥ last round
...

again opener loves his hand now.

Why would opener bid 3♦ on that auction instead of 3NT, has he not already shown 6 diamonds and he has scattered honors all over with the unbid suits well stopped?

That would be nice.

After 1♦ 1♠ do you always rebid 1NT with 1=4=5=3?

We have a problem and can't do that since our no trump rebid is strong.

[Cascade]

JLOGIC, on Jul 12 2010, 05:50 PM, said:

I am a big fan of 2N forcing. The way I play it it's always with a diamond fit, and never with 5 spades. Hands with 5 spades bid 2H.

Playing that I would bid:

1D 1S
2D 2N
3S* 4H
4N etc

3S=spade shortness
4H=cue
4N=keycard

I think the natural auction works better though (2H 2N 3D 3H).

We started off playing what we knew as Bourke Relays where the next step was forcing but didn't like giving up a natural suit bid.

We found that giving up a natural invitational 2NT was much less of a problem.

It is interesting having two artificial forces. Obviously each would be better than just having one. And maybe because of that it would be less inconvenient to give up a natural 2♥.

Our forcing 2NT has three hand types:

1. Diamond support

2. Single Suited with spades (all two suited hands go through a natural forcing new suit)

3. Very strong balanced

Our responses cater on showing a (good) six card suit or the level of support for responder's suit (especially if a major).

[mich-b]

JLOGIC, on Jul 12 2010, 01:33 AM, said:

mich-b, on Jul 12 2010, 01:27 AM, said:

kayin801, on Jul 12 2010, 12:11 AM, said:

1♦-1♠
2♦-2♥ (catchall force, planning to show a GF with ♦ support)

How do those who play this way (2♥ does not promiss ♥s) , sort out things when opener has 4♥s and raises?
Would 3♣ in this auction be a "catchall" as well ? Do you tend to bid your better fragment?

And if 2♥ is not GF , wouldn't opener bid 3NT with his maximum rather than presumably non forcing 2NT?

This and many other reasons is why 2H has to be a GF. I mean for the reason alone that partner has to bid 3H with a min or max with hearts (cant jump to 4 when 2H doesnt show hearts), and just the fact that jumping around is so bad...

If you play that 2♥ is GF , how do you handle hands with 5-4 majors and invitational strength?

[JLOGIC]

mich-b, on Jul 12 2010, 02:02 AM, said:

JLOGIC, on Jul 12 2010, 01:33 AM, said:

mich-b, on Jul 12 2010, 01:27 AM, said:

kayin801, on Jul 12 2010, 12:11 AM, said:

1♦-1♠
2♦-2♥ (catchall force, planning to show a GF with ♦ support)

How do those who play this way (2♥ does not promiss ♥s) , sort out things when opener has 4♥s and raises?
Would 3♣ in this auction be a "catchall" as well ? Do you tend to bid your better fragment?

And if 2♥ is not GF , wouldn't opener bid 3NT with his maximum rather than presumably non forcing 2NT?

This and many other reasons is why 2H has to be a GF. I mean for the reason alone that partner has to bid 3H with a min or max with hearts (cant jump to 4 when 2H doesnt show hearts), and just the fact that jumping around is so bad...

If you play that 2♥ is GF , how do you handle hands with 5-4 majors and invitational strength?

@michb I play 1D p 2S shows 5S and 4-5H invitational.

@cascade I play 1D p 2H shows 5S and 4-5H less than invitational, so I don't need 2H as natural non forcing.

I think those bids solve a ton of problems such as helping on 3rd suit auctions etc.

[gnasher]

JLOGIC, on Jul 12 2010, 06:50 AM, said:

I am a big fan of 2N forcing. The way I play it it's always with a diamond fit, and never with 5 spades. Hands with 5 spades bid 2H.

Playing that I would bid:

1D 1S
2D 2N

So on this hand you don't have five spades?

[gnasher]

mich-b, on Jul 12 2010, 08:02 AM, said:

If you play that 2♥ is GF , how do you handle hands with 5-4 majors and invitational strength?

Force to game and see if it makes.

The auction doesn't always go 1♦-1♠;2♦, and after any other start you'll be able to show invitational values. I'd rather have this minor inaccuracy than lose one of my ways to show a one-suiter in a major.

[JLOGIC]

gnasher, on Jul 12 2010, 02:27 AM, said:

JLOGIC, on Jul 12 2010, 06:50 AM, said:

I am a big fan of 2N forcing. The way I play it it's always with a diamond fit, and never with 5 spades. Hands with 5 spades bid 2H.

Playing that I would bid:

1D 1S
2D 2N

So on this hand you don't have five spades?

It doesn't look like it

It could be right to play 4S I guess if partner has something like Qxx KQ KQxxxx xx, but it seems more likely that we should just play 3N or a diamond slam at MP with so many HCP and a (hopefully) running 6 card suit and such bad spades. Partner with good spades would raise to 2S usually, and with bad spades they must have stuff in the round suits. Anyways, certainly that approach seems better than just bidding 3N as was done in the OP since the hand has enormous potential for a D slam obv.