[CSGibson]

In the auctions (1♠)-X-(2♠)

and (1♠)-P-(2♠)-X-(P),

What do you think is the best use of 2N by [edit] the partner of the take-out doubler?

Edit: If it matters, primarily concerned about teams

[manudude03]

I prefer the first to be lebensohl (or some form of Good/Bad) and the second to be 2 places to play. I voted lebensohl since thats what I would prefer if it had to be the same

[ONEferBRID]

2NT by "Advancer" as Lebensohl.

( "Responder" has already bid 2S ).

[awm]

First auction: both minors. With hearts and a minor I'd make a responsive double. On a serious invite with hearts I'd double and the bid hearts.

Second auction: either two places to play, or a game-invitational hand with hearts. Doubler assumes both minors and bids accordingly, but correcting 3♣ to 3♥ shows the invite with hearts.

I don't think lebensohl is as useful here as people make it out to be. It's quite unusual to have a 3NT game on this auction given that the opponents have opened and responded, especially on the second auction where the raise is not normally garbage either (people take more liberties with the raise on the first auction). On the first auction you're also free to pass with lousy hands, so bidding always shows modest values and lebensohl is even less useful. The only game that's at all likely in these sequences is 4♥, since this can make with substantially fewer high cards than you need for 3NT (or 5m, for that matter). Thus I think it's somewhat useful to distinguish "good hand with hearts" from "lousy hand with hearts" but not too important to distinguish strength when the fit is in a minor suit. Initially showing "hearts and another" when you have this rare hand type and then correcting to hearts usually solves the problem.

[nigel_k]

First one natural (dbl with minors or a good hand, bid 3♥ with 4 of them)

Second one scrambling.

[JLOGIC]

I prefer to play 2N=hearts

[kfay]

JLOGIC, on Jul 10 2010, 08:49 PM, said:

I prefer to play 2N=hearts

I've seen this before and kinda like it.

But I play 2 places to play.

[Siegmund]

I've only ever used it as either strictly-minors or any-two-suits, scrambling. Will be keeping an eye on this thread to see what others have been using and liking.

[whereagles]

I use ye olde 1993 agreement of Robson/Segal, i.e. lebensohl.

[campboy]

Like Nigel, I prefer the first one to be natural and the second one as scrambling. The two auctions are completely different; on the first you can pass with a bad hand or double with no clear direction, so the need for lebensohl or scrambling is much reduced.

[JLOGIC]

Didn't see the 2nd auction, that one I def prefer 2 places to play.

[gnasher]

In the first one, I usually play:

  Double = four hearts
  2NT = minors
  3♥ = five hearts

I think that's slightly worse than using 2NT to show hearts. Doubling to show four hearts gains a bit of space on the hands where advancer has hearts but doubler doesn't; 2NT showing four hearts gains on the hands where advancer doesn't have hearts. The latter situation is probably more common.

After (1♥) dbl (2♥), on the other hand, double to show four spades seems better.


On the second sequence, 2NT is definitely best as two places to play. The gain from finding an 8-card fit rather than a 7-card one will often be half a game-swing. That happens quite often, whereas you hardly ever want to bid 3NT or five of a minor after this start.

I think Lebensohl is counterproductive in these sequences, especially the first one - they always bid 3♠ over 2NT, and now your partner knows that you wanted to compete, but has no idea what your suit is.

[pirate22]

pard has opened 1sp---x ----me 2n/t(equals places to play and good)
awaiting opps next bid --and p subsequent bid if it pass-the vice is closing

[Cascade]

Natural is ok on both auctions.

Two places to play if it is clear we cannot have the values for game.

[Free]

1. Lebensohl (scrambling doesn't make sense, you can Dbl with these)
2. scrambling (Lebensohl is probably less useful here)

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

In the first auction Lebensohl, in the second auction two-places / scrambling,
but we play 2NT as Lebensohl in the 2nd auction.

With kind regards
Marlowe