[awm]

♠Axxx
♥xx
♦KT
♣Kxxxx

Red vs White at BAM; RHO deals

After two passes LHO opens 2♦ natural and weak. This passes back to you. What's your call?

If it matters, your teammates and opponents at both tables are among the better players in a regional field. Partner may not be up to that standard. The opponents stated range is 4-10 points and either 6♦ or 5 good ones, but LHO is known to make very wide ranging preempts in third position.

[karlson]

I pass, all the other options are so bad.

Hope their wide ranging preempt caused them to miss a good game one time.

[JLOGIC]

pass, not even close

[Phil]

Bidding looks like a great way to lose the board at your table. Thank the opponents for preempting you out of your misfit.

At the other table, the auction might have started (1♦) - 1♥ - (something) - and your counterparts are struggling to get our for -100.

[Apollo81]

If they make it's only -90, so bidding and going -100 is not an improvement. I would balance with a X if LHO had opened 2♥.

[awm]

Here's the rest of the story.

Partner asked about the (unalerted) 2♦ bid and was told it was a weak two. She then thought a bit before passing. It's not totally clear whether this passes the threshold for a break in tempo given the skip bid, but the opponents (Elianna and I) both felt that there was a bit of a "tell."

The person holding this hand then balanced with a double. Partner held:

♠Kxxx
♥AQ9x
♦AJxx
♣T

They eventually reached 4♠, which makes fairly easily as the cards lie (trump 3-2, diamond queen onside, club ace onside).

We didn't call the director here, both because the break in tempo wasn't really clear, and because the actual hand held by the 2♦ bidder was rather embarrassing (the preempt was on a bad four card suit -- no I've never actually done that before).

[JLOGIC]

Forget about BIT, if they ask what 2D is without an alert that is UI imo. I've never seen anyone ask about an unalerted bid with a yarb!

[awm]

JLOGIC, on Jul 12 2010, 04:25 PM, said:

Forget about BIT, if they ask what 2D is without an alert that is UI imo. I've never seen anyone ask about an unalerted bid with a yarb!

True, but people ask about 2♦ openings more than other calls (because conventional meanings are so common). The auction also rather marks partner with some values, since the auction so far has been Pass-Pass-weak two bid, and it's not totally clear that asking about the 2♦ call implies more than the usual 10-12 or so.

But perhaps we should've called the director here.

[Cyberyeti]

awm, on Jul 12 2010, 03:54 PM, said:

We didn't call the director here, both because the break in tempo wasn't really clear, and because the actual hand held by the 2♦ bidder was rather embarrassing (the preempt was on a bad four card suit -- no I've never actually done that before).

We actually open weak 2s systemically on 4 card suits first and 3rd and have done for several years.

I don't know whether it's a truism on the other side of the pond, but I never seem to get a ruling in my favour after I've psyched, although I'd certainly call the director in this case.

[pooltuna]

Double is automatic as the scoring method is very punishing for a single hand and nonpunishing for an overall score. IMO letting the opps play in 2♦ is nearly equivalent to accepting a -1 so even -1000 actual score has next to no penalty. But if we X and find either a ♣ or ♠ fit we are in the running for +1 or 0

[Codo]

pooltuna, on Jul 13 2010, 11:36 PM, said:

Double is automatic as the scoring method is very punishing for a single hand and nonpunishing for an overall score. IMO letting the opps play in 2♦ is nearly equivalent to accepting a -1 so even -1000 actual score has next to no penalty. But if we X and find either a ♣ or ♠ fit we are in the running for +1 or 0

Why?

If they have a normal 3 hand weak two, why would not anybody else open 2 diamond too?

And if this is a not normal weak two, why do you think that we will be placed worse then the other pairs?

Our chance4s of a good score are still around 50 %.

[pooltuna]

Codo, on Jul 14 2010, 06:34 AM, said:

pooltuna, on Jul 13 2010, 11:36 PM, said:

Double is automatic as the scoring method is very punishing for a single hand and nonpunishing for an overall score. IMO letting the opps play in 2♦ is nearly equivalent to accepting a -1 so even -1000 actual score has next to no penalty. But if we X and find either a ♣ or ♠ fit we are in the running for +1 or 0

Why?

If they have a normal 3 hand weak two, why would not anybody else open 2 diamond too?

And if this is a not normal weak two, why do you think that we will be placed worse then the other pairs?

Our chance4s of a good score are still around 50 %.

okay what is a normal 3rd hand weak 2♦ call when they are white and we are red I think the extra variablity probably favors acting rather than sitting with this hand....just IMO

[Codo]

pooltuna, on Jul 14 2010, 10:47 PM, said:

okay what is a normal 3rd hand weak 2♦ call when they are white and we are red I think the extra variablity probably favors acting rather than sitting with this hand....just IMO

And this particular pair plays the third hand weak two different then the other pairs? Or do the other pairs have another vul.?
I did not read this in the op.

So the difference between the choosen bids at our table and at other tables is how aggressive this pair is and whether or not the other pairs have a weak two in diamonds avaiable.

Nothing is know about these factors, so there is no clue whether or not we are in a losing position already.

[gnasher]

It says BAM, so there's only one other table that we care about. Presumably we'll know whether a weak 2♦ is available at the other table, and what their style is.

[Bbradley62]

gnasher, on Jul 14 2010, 10:40 AM, said:

It says BAM, so there's only one other table that we care about.  Presumably we'll know whether a weak 2♦ is available at the other table, and what their style is.

I believe that Codo's point was that we, reading the forum, do not know whether weak 2♦ was available to our teammates, so that may or may not influence the discussion. Clearly, N/S knew when they were sitting at the table.

This post has been edited by Bbradley62: 2010-July-14, 09:14

[hanp]

In the Netherlands people pretty much always ask what a 2D opening shows.