[Poky]

Playing 2/1, describe a hand you will hold when bidding this way:

1♥ - 1NT (F1)
2♥ - 2♠

Ty, Poky

[daswallow]

With a hand too good for 3h but not good enough for 4h??
The bid is usually used after eg 1h 1NT 2d 2s*
now 2s shows a v good diamond raise.

[Free]

It's artificial and forcing, that's for sure. With ♠ you'd bid 1♠ instead of 1NT. What exact meaning you want to give it doesn't matter, but usually it should show support and game-inviting in the last bid suit.

[Poky]

Free, on Aug 25 2004, 10:45 AM, said:

It's artificial and forcing, that's for sure. With ♠ you'd bid 1♠ instead of 1NT. What exact meaning you want to give it doesn't matter, but usually it should show support and game-inviting in the last bid suit.

If so, what is the difference between 3♥ and 2♠ rebid?

[daswallow]

It's something you need to decide...
Maybe 3h shows a 'minimum' invitational hand and 2s shows a 'maximum'??
Or 2s could be played as a relay to 2NT, so use it on game invitational hands with a minor suit (direct bid of minor is then signoff).
eg 1h 1NT 2h 2s 2NT 3c = 3NT invite with good clubs
and 1h 1NT 2h 3c = signoff.

Does anyone play this kind of structure? It won;t come up all that often.

[1eyedjack]

It is playable, if rather infrequent, to use this sequence to show a weak hand with 5-5 in the minors

[bearmum]

Poky, on Aug 25 2004, 09:46 PM, said:

Playing 2/1, describe a hand you will hold when bidding this way:

1♥ - 1NT (F1)
2♥ - 2♠

Ty, Poky

before reading ANY other replies


I believe that calling 1NT over 1♥ DENIES a 4 card ♠ suit ( isn't 1NT FORCING in 2/1?? )


SO I would EXPECT that the 2S bid is WEAK LONG ♠ suit --- why else go via forcing NT ??

like S KQxxxxxx and not much else and 1 H and 3/2 in minors
--------------- SO with opener's hand having shown a six card ♥ suit and less than 16 points I will PASS 2♠ and if we get a BAD result I will ask P to justify his/her bid

[Free]

Bearmum, if we ever play together, remind me not to play 2/1 with you

[inquiry]

Poky, on Aug 25 2004, 04:46 AM, said:

Playing 2/1, describe a hand you will hold when bidding this way:

1♥ - 1NT (F1)
2♥ - 2♠

Ty, Poky

If the bidding had gone 1♥-1NT-2m, then 2♠ we can all agree is a maximum fit for the minor (within the context of 1NT).

Over the 2♥ rebid, where 2♥ shows a weak hand (I assume you play 2♥ rebid correctly, with six hearts and better than a minimum, rebid your better minor), 2♠ can not be bid on any hand not game forcing (imho). So the meaning would depend upon what you can have for your 1NT bid. Can you have a balanced hand with game forcing values? Then 2♥ can be pick between 4♥ and 3NT. Can you have 12+ with three card support, then 2♠ is game force with three card heart fit.

Bridge logic dictates that opposite the weak 2♥ rebid, 2♠ has to be whatever the strong component of 1NT can be.. and by strong, I mean game force. If you have no "game force" component to your 1NT (which indeed I do not), then 2♠ has to be I have a game invite hand with a nice minor suit. Partner will bid something and you will show your minor (thus, this would be maximum 1NT with long minor), and this allows your 3 of a minor over 2♥ to be absolutely to play.

Ben

[mishovnbg]

I will not comment obvious meaning of artifical good raise. It can be also any inv hand and this convention you can find in BBO library, if I remember right described by Fred.

One interesting meaning of all rebids of 1NT F1R in higher suit is GF hand with missfit in opener suit (suitable for NT hand). Example:

1♥-1NT, 2x-2♠: 5+♠, GF, sing/void ♥.

If you play nat 1♦ opening (5+♦, unbalanced), you will almost never play 1NT, so can use 1NT answer as F1R, like in majors. In such case:

1♦-1NT{F1R}, 2♣/♦-2♥/♠: 5+♥/♠, GF, sing/void ♦.

Strong hands with sing/void in opener's suit are very difficulte for bidding, because level of contract depend of level of duplication in opener's suit. Above way solve this problem by most natural and easy way.

P.S. This convention is part of system of one of varna's bridge theorists, who play in BBO - bychechi nick.

Misho

[bearmum]

Free, on Aug 26 2004, 12:33 AM, said:

Bearmum, if we ever play together, remind me not to play 2/1 with you   

NP free - BUT I don't appreciate your comment re not playing with me - I have NEVER asked you to
I have TRIED to learn 2/1 --- and IF 2♠ in the bidding sequence shown means I HAVE GREAT hand except S then I GIVE up!


EVERY site I have looked at to explain 2/1 has NOT said that 2S means I HATE 2S in this sequence ----------- SO I guess Free I have NO problems NOT playing with you because yiou are OBVIOUSLY SO much better a player than POOR old me

[Free]

Should I start a poll out of this one? How many smileys do you need to make it CLEAR you meant something as a little joke???

1?
2?
3?
4?
5?
more?

Djeez take it easy mummy...

Btw, I didn't say I don't want to play with you. Read my post like it should be read! It's in plain English, should be quite understandable imo.

You say you tried to learn 2/1. Did you ever read the lessons from the spectrum series? There you'll find:

Quote

1H:1NT:2m:2S is a strong raise of the minor.
1H:1NT:2H:2S is a limit raise with 3 Hearts.

[paulhar]

To Bearmum: When you get told in the Adv & Exp forum TWICE that you should only post in the Beginner's forum, and you get told in the Beginner's forum to stay the h*** away, then you have a right to complain (or you can ignore the flak like I do and keep posting and annoying people like I do )

I know very few posters on these forums that haven't got poked fun at - I'm sure that Free has taken a lot more shots than you have - and we're glad he keeps posting because these forums would be lessened without him. These forums are like playing tournament bridge, you need to have a thick skin or a decent sense of humor. (Having both helps )

Actually it's a good thing. If you have an opinion that's unpopular, you find out in a matter of hours

[mikestar]

I think the conventional meanings are more useful overall, but I've known 2/1 playes who use 2S as Bearmum suggested. They use two level jump shifts as strong, simplifying slam investigation vs. after a 1-over-1. (Jumps shifts at the three level are usually Bergen.)

In these partnerships 1H-1S-2H-2S is mildly invitational while 1H-1N-2H-2S is a poor hand.

This method is not my preference but it is playable.

[EricK]

If it were undiscussed, I would never bid this way!

A good use for it may very well be some sort of spade suit.

That way you can differentiate your single-suited spade hands between very weak hands (1H 2S), weak hands (1H 1NT 2x 2S), invitational hands (1H 1S any 2S) and GF hands (1H 1S any 3S).

Eric

[pclayton]

2♠ to show a hand akin to a WJS is not useful.

The 2♠ rebid can show one of three things:

1) A 2N rebid; (10+ - 12-) that has an anti-positional spade stop; such as Axx or Kxx wishing to play opposite pard's tenace or honor-dub.

2) Some sort of heart raise and specifically differentiated from 3♥.

3) Minors.

I don't mind #1 or #3. #2 doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

[1eyedjack]

Of course, if you play the Kaplan Inversion, this becomes a non-problem.

[inquiry]

Quote

The 2♠ rebid can show one of three things:

1) A 2N rebid; (10+ - 12-) that has an anti-positional spade stop; such as Axx or Kxx wishing to play opposite pard's tenace or honor-dub.

No, you already bid 1NT... so no transfer NT to partner...

Ben