[sceptic]

Can you tell me the disadvantages and defences against lebensohl, I am learning this convention and I love it, but I want to realise the down side to it as well, all comments welcome (p.s. you can include comments about ruhbensohl as well as I know some of you play both )

[1eyedjack]

The only way that you can consider its disadvantages is by comparison with a specific alternative. Only when you have specified the alternative can a discussion of their relative merits be meaningful.

[1eyedjack]

I have never felt the need to discuss a defence to Lebensohl.

Lebensohl itself can be used in a variety of situations. However in the classical situation for which it was originally designed, Lebensohl is a defence to a natural overcall of 2-suit by RHO following partner's 1NT opening bid.

The overcall (over 1NT) itself tends to be fairly narrowly defined, both in terms of distribution and strength, and advancer (partner of the overcaller) can normally decide on the final contract (assuming that he wishes to compete further) and does not require artificial methods to identify that point.

There may be an exception where the opponents are playing a weak or mini INT opener so that there may be a need to investigate game, but even then it has not made a significant impact on my methods, even in regular partnerships.

[luke warm]

i use leb, and i play mini/weak nt... i've seen some posters say they hate it, but i think it's indispensible... while looking into it sceptic, take a look at transfer leb... it's a nice twist

[hallway]

and Sceptic be sure to come to class (where else but in the BIL ) on Thursday 5 August 14:00 EDT - topic Lebensohl - you see though I Love Beginners , I Care for you Intermediates too

[the hog]

Leb can be used over 1N.

It can also be used over 1 level openings eg
1C (2S) 2N forces 3C which can be passed or resp bids as follows
3D = t/p
3H = t/p
3S = gf, 5H weak S stopper
3N = gf 4H + S stopper

Can also be used over 2 openings
(2S) X (P) 2N with a weak hand to sign off in C/D/H or show various strong options

Leb has an adv over Rub in the latter 2 sequences as going via 2N and then signing off in C/D = weak. With Rub, opener does not know whether resp is weak, invit or gf. (gf will bid again, of course).

[Cascade]

I think there are two main disadvantages of Lebensohl:

1. You give up a natural bid of 2NT

2. If there is further competition from the opponents then opener will often not know responder's suit.

IMO disadvantage 1 is not serious. Because invitational hands are necessarily of a narrow range they do not occur very frequently. And because 2NT is no-man's-land when you get there.

A simple raise can be enough to cause problem 2. It is easy to imagine a hand that would be willing to compete if partner has one minor but not if partner has the other on an auction like:

1NT (2♠) 2NT* (3♠)
?