[bluecalm]

Hi,

It just occurred to me that I don't know how to bid those hands in Meckwell based precision. The situation is as follows:

Opener has very strong hand with 4M-5m say: AKx AKQx AQJxx x (from EuroCh).
Responder has 4+spades and 0-7.

It starts:

1♣ - 1♦
1♥ - 1♠

Now what ? 3♦ would be 5+-5+. 4♣ even if splinter is not possible as partner could have only 4♠. I imagine 2NT can have some artificial meaning here (we haven't bid NT earlier so we can't have balanced hand but I am not sure how to untagle it.

Similar problem arises in:

1♣ - 1♦
1♠ - 1NT
???

Actual hands were:

JT9xx xx x Axxxx
AKQ AKx AQJxx x

How to reach 6♠ here ?


Anyone care to help me with this ?

[straube]

bluecalm, on Jun 25 2010, 10:44 AM, said:

Hi,

It just occurred to me that I don't know how to bid those hands in Meckwell based precision. The situation is as follows:

Opener has very strong hand with 4M-5m say: AKx AKQx AQJxx x (from EuroCh).
Responder has 4+spades and 0-7.

It starts:

1♣ - 1♦
1♥ - 1♠

Now what ? 3♦ would be 5+-5+. 4♣ even if splinter is not possible as partner could have only 4♠. I imagine 2NT can have some artificial meaning here (we haven't bid NT earlier so we can't have balanced hand but I am not sure how to untagle it.

Similar problem arises in:

1♣ - 1♦
1♠ - 1NT
???

Actual hands were:

JT9xx xx x Axxxx
AKQ AKx AQJxx x

How to reach 6♠ here ?


Anyone care to help me with this ?

I don't know what 1C-1D, 1H-1S, 2N would mean....possibly invitational with spade shortness?

I would guess that they might GF on the first hand...

1C-1H, 2H-2S, 2N-3H

2H forces 2S and 2N rebid shows a balanced GF.

The hand isn't balanced, but at least it creates a GF and sets up puppet stayman and transfers.

Not sure, but my impression of Meckwell continuations (after 1C-1D) is that it's geared for part scores and games (as opposed to say a relay system that would be better for slams).

The second hand is missing a card.

[SteelWheel]

I play Berkowitz/Cohen-ish Precision, but with 1♥ rebid by opener as a Kokish-type relay. We have three ways to show a minor after getting a 1♦ response:

2m = kind of a "meh" hand, minimum values for a strong club, tending to deny a four-card major

3m = good rebid, generally 6+ holding, and about an Ace stronger than a minimum strong club

2♥ = forced relay to 2♠, many possible hand types, rebid of 3m would show a moose

So this hand would go through the 2♥ dance, and after rebidding 3♦, responder would bid 3♠. From there...? I guess revert to "natural", so 4♥ is some sort of cuebid (for sure it's forcing), responder can bid 5♣, and then opener can bid the slam. Not the most scientific auction I've ever heard, but with my regular pards I think we'd get there.

[gwnn]

Not sure how to reach 6♠ but you can ask Fluffy on reaching 7♠ and substract a little optimism

[LoneMonad]

where can i find the structure for Meckwell style precision

[Apollo81]

I play something that I think qualifies as Meckwell style Precision after 1♣-1♦, let me try to answer your questions.

Quote

AKx AKQx AQJxx x

1♣ - 1♦
1♥ - 1♠

Now what ?

I would bid 3♦ here which shows a GF with 5+♦ and doesn't promise 5+♥. I play that 1NT by opener here shows 5+♥ and is F1, but I don't know if that is what Meckwell play. Various things can happen over this, one of which is a 3NT bid by responder and a 4♠ bid by opener. After that responder can bid the slam.

Quote

Similar problem arises in:

1♣ - 1♦
1♠ - 1NT
???

I play that 2NT here is a near-GF with 5+♠/4+m (can stop in 3♠ if responder bids that immediately) and that 3m is a GF with 4+♠/5+m.

[lilboyman]

In their 2006 notes at one competition, if they don't rebid their Major, they are showing a longer minor or an unbalanced 3 suiter. See:

http://www.ecatsbridge.com/documents/files...oth-rodwell.pdf

Notes are on last page.

[PrecisionL]

I have given this a lot of thought and would bid the first hand:

1♣ - 1♦ - 1♥ (4+♥ & 1 round force) - 1♠/1NT (2nd negative 0-4 with or without 4+♠) - 3♦ = G.F. and 4♥ and 5+♦.

As for the 2nd hand, assuming the 13th card is a ♥, then same auction and responder would bid 1♠ and then [opener would] rebid 3♠ showing 5 and I am not sure if we would or would [not] want to get to 6♠.

This post has been edited by PrecisionL: 2010-August-24, 09:30

[Ant590]

gwnn, on Jun 27 2010, 03:11 PM, said:

Not sure how to reach 6♠ but you can ask Fluffy on reaching 7♠ and substract a little optimism

I wish BBF had a "like" button!

[bluecalm]

I realized that jumps should be 4M-5+ and not 5-5 (so 5-5 are either in Kokish or in 2♠).
Thanks guys !

[olien]

one option is to play transfer re-bids after 1♠

Then:
3m can be 4H 5+m GF
and go via transfer and then bid 3H to show 5/5 GF

Just a thought

[cwiggins]

Curious. Old fashioned "Precision's One Club Complete" doesn't have a problem with these hands at all.

1C 1D
1H 1S ... 1H = 4+ F1. 1S = 0-7 HCP, 4+ spades
3D 3S ... 3D = GF with 5+ diamonds and only 4 H. 3S = natural
4C 4N ... 4C = cue in support of spades and must be shortness. Slam try.
5C 5D ... 1 or 4. 5D = queen? Actually hoping for 6N: source of tricks
6H 6S ... Yes and H-K.
P


1H relays (like Relay Precision or Viking Club) also get there.

1C 1D
1H 2S ... 1H = 20+ 1S = natural, 5+ long, 5-7 HCP
4C 4D ... 4C = splinter, slammish. 4D = cue
4N 5C ... 4N = KCB. 5C = 1 or 4
6D 6S ... 6D = diamond K? 6S = no (partner could have AK for 1D)
P

[jjbrr]

Those systems might not have a problem with the hand, but I have a problem with both those auctions.

The first one, is it clear to rebid JT9xx of spades? It works well when you can see partner's hand and he happens to have AKQ, but I would expect partner to raise with Hx a lot.

The second one, why would opener splinter with only 3♠?

[cwiggins]

Quote

The first one, is it clear to rebid JT9xx of spades? It works well when you can see partner's hand and he happens to have AKQ, but I would expect partner to raise with Hx a lot.

Having opener raise with Hx is not a bad thing. In a DealMaster simulation opposite responder's hand with opener 2=4=5-2 with a game force with Ax, Kx, or Qx in spades, 4S made 83% of the time and 3NT made 83% of the time. I.e., it's a wash.


The only plausible other bid to me is 3NT, which opener will pass whether he is 3=4=5=1 or 1=4=5=3 or 2=4=5=2.
- If opener is 2-2 and has at least Hx in spades, it makes no difference what you bid 3S or 3N.
- If opener has 1 spade and 3 clubs, you reach 3NT.
- But if Opener is 3=4=5=1, Dealmaster says you will make 4S or more 100% of the time with 6S making 65% and 7S 16%. You will make 3N or more 84% of the time, and 6N only 7% of the time and 7NT 2%. 3S is the better bid.

Quote

The second one, why would opener splinter with only 3

The other choice over 2S is 3S. That may be the better choice, and if opener bids that, you should still get to slam. Over 3S, resonder knows that the short suit total is 3 (1 diamond + 2 hearts = 3) so 19-21 working points takes 10 tricks and 25 working points takes 6. The combined HCP are at least 25, so a slam try is in order. If responder cue bids 4C (semi-serious rather than serious 3NT), opener will use KCB to drive to 6S.

OTOH, the SPL with only 3-card support--which is unusual--has the advantage that it helps responder evaluate his limited values correctly for slam. If responder has no HCP or wasted values in clubs, he will sign off. If he does anything else, then opener can drive to slam.

[olien]

Another Possibility is to play:
2NT game force 5+H 4+m or single suited
........now 3C asks
..............3D 5+H 4D, 3H=6+H, 3S=3(2)S 5+H 4C, 3NT=<3S 5+H 4C
3m 4H 5+m GF
3H Nat INV


INV canape hands can make use of the possible transfer re-bids by opener.