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3 doubles

#1 User is offline   el mister 

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Posted 2010-June-18, 02:31

What do you make of this sequence (me south)?

Scoring: IMP

- - P P
1♣ X 3♣ p
p X p 3♥
p p 4♣ p
p X all pass


Should I come in over 3♣ with such a pish hand? Anyhow, partner insists (should he?), so I show hearts. What then does his final double mean? Is it a clear penalty?

I left it in and we got a good score in the end, so I guess he did well to get the 4♣ bid out of opps.
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#2 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2010-June-18, 02:48

Over 3♣ pass is clear. If partner has extra's he'll Dbl, which is what he did.

Your 3♥ is the best you can do obviously: no values or shape to bid 4♥

I don't understand partner's Dbl on 4♣: you haven't shown any values yet, he may have 3 tricks, but that's all.

Anyway, with the South hand I'd pass 4♣x, because I don't have extras or shape to consider a 4♥ bid (and the Dbl probably indicates there's no ♥ fit). EW are vul, so lets just hope it goes down.
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#3 User is offline   Codo 

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Posted 2010-June-18, 03:55

I dislike partners second double.
I hate his 3. double. He got lucky.
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#4 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2010-June-18, 04:16

Just because partner has A AK and good shape it doesn't give him the right to sell his hand as a balanced 21 count (the third double I mean). His second double was also false advertising but it could work out sometimes. So you bid perfectly and your partner bid 66% wrong.
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#5 User is offline   kgr 

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Posted 2010-June-18, 05:59

Free, on Jun 18 2010, 10:48 AM, said:

Over 3♣ pass is clear. If partner has extra's he'll Dbl, which is what he did.

Did he have extra's?
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#6 User is offline   vuroth 

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Posted 2010-June-18, 06:10

el mister, on Jun 18 2010, 03:31 AM, said:

Should I come in over 3♣ with such a pish hand?

Imo YES. Partner has promised extras. All he's lacking is direction.

I agree with the assessment of your partner's bidding, but I think you have a clear 3♥. It's probably not terribly close to being a pass.
Still decidedly intermediate - don't take my guesses as authoritative.

"gwnn" said:

rule number 1 in efficient forum reading:
hanp does not always mean literally what he writes.
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#7 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2010-June-18, 06:47

vuroth? when did partner show extras, I think you're misunderstanding something.

The OP had the following questions:
-should he bid over 1C-x-3C-?
-should his partner x again over
1C-x-3C-p
p-?
-whether the double here is for penalties:
1c-x-3C-p
p-x-p-3H
4C-x

What you quoted was the first question so partner has not, until that point, shown extras.
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#8 User is offline   pooltuna 

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Posted 2010-June-18, 07:21

el mister, on Jun 18 2010, 03:31 AM, said:

What do you make of this sequence (me south)?

Scoring: IMP

- - P P
1♣ X 3♣ p
p X p 3♥
p p 4♣ p
p X all pass


Should I come in over 3♣ with such a pish hand? Anyhow, partner insists (should he?), so I show hearts. What then does his final double mean? Is it a clear penalty?

I left it in and we got a good score in the end, so I guess he did well to get the 4♣ bid out of opps.

Q1] IMO no
Q2] he should NOT! unless he thinks you didn't hear him the first time
Q3] the opponents aren't making this!
Q4] IMO yes
Q5] yes he is an idiot IMO, got lucky, and even a blind pig finds an occasional acorn
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#9 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2010-June-18, 07:25

if I had say

xxx
xxxxxx
xx
xx

I would definitely bid:

1C-x-3C-p
p-x-p-3H
4C-x-p-4H

So the last X is not pure penalty. He just tells you that he has more points than hitherto expressed.
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#10 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2010-June-18, 07:50

kgr, on Jun 18 2010, 12:59 PM, said:

Free, on Jun 18 2010, 10:48 AM, said:

Over 3♣ pass is clear.  If partner has extra's he'll Dbl, which is what he did.

Did he have extra's?

Did I say that? I only said (or meant to say) he doubled... :rolleyes:
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#11 User is offline   kgr 

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Posted 2010-June-18, 08:02

Free, on Jun 18 2010, 03:50 PM, said:

kgr, on Jun 18 2010, 12:59 PM, said:

Free, on Jun 18 2010, 10:48 AM, said:

Over 3♣ pass is clear.  If partner has extra's he'll Dbl, which is what he did.

Did he have extra's?

Did I say that? I only said (or meant to say) he doubled... :rolleyes:

You are right. Having is not Commutative
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#12 User is offline   ArtK78 

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Posted 2010-June-18, 09:16

pooltuna, on Jun 18 2010, 08:21 AM, said:

even a blind pig finds an occasional acorn

I wasn't aware that a pig, blind or otherwise, was looking for acorns (although I guess that a pig would find one every so often).
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#13 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2010-June-18, 09:30

http://www.coestatep...om/wild_pig.htm says in several places that pigs eat acorns, they even have to compete with deer for the valuable little nuts. Apparently acorns sometimes constitute as much as 25% of deer's diets.
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#14 User is offline   wank 

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Posted 2010-June-18, 16:32

the second double showed extras which he didn't have. the 3rd double showed even more extra which he even more didn't have. it implies only 3 hearts otherwise with extras and 4H he'll often bid 4H himself, so yes you should pass it as you've got a flat bag of crap.
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