[jillybean]

Scoring: MP

(P) P (P) 1♥
(P) 2♦* (P) ?

* 4 card support 10-12 hcp

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[kenrexford]

Any methods?

Barring these, 2♠ seems about right. Low call likely to lead to good information.

[mikeh]

I suspect that this post shows mostly that it pays to have agreements on artificial auctions. It is common to sit down and agree, for example, that 'we play 2-way drury, with 2♦ showing the 4 card drury' and then that's the end of the discussion.

For me, 3♥ here would be (an agreed-upon) slam try.

If I want to bid game, with no slam interest, I bid game. if I want to make a gametry, I bid a new suit or 2N. So 3♥, not being needed as a gametry (well, I guess it could be a trump ask but that's a rare beast) is ideal as a slam try, demanding cue-bids.

Then we have the next area undiscussed (I suspect): in this auction should responder bid 2nd round controls when he lacks any 1st rounders? Or can he bid 3N as forward going but lacking a 1st round control?


All of this begs the question, which is whether this is a slam-suitable hand and, if so, should we be showing or telling? We have to be worried about diamonds: it wouldn't be the least bit surprising to find that diamonds was our trump suit: picture xxx KQxx KQxx xx, and 6♦ needs only a 3-2 split while 6♥ has no play. And opposite say xxx in diamonds, we probably don't want to be in slam anyway.

So a long suit game try, if it catches a raise, is probably the best approach: 3♦ if available, and then keycard (if you have it) over 4♦...ideally two-suit or '6 ace' keycard, which is a useful gadget when two suits have been bid and raised, or a more prosaic 5N over 4♦ as pick a slam.

This approach commits you to slam if he raises diamonds, but that is arguably the time you most want to be in slam anyway.

I'm bidding just game if he rejects my gametry: I am cuebidding spades over a leap to 4♥, which should announce help in diamonds but inadequate length to make it a trump suit...and am allowing us to play in 5♥ if he doesn't cooperate.

[Phil]

What I really want to know is if partner has shortness. I don't expect a great trick source (say KQxxx in a side suit), since partner didn't fit jump.

I will start with 2N. I would expect partner to splinter over this with many game accepts.

While I agree with Ken that 3♥ is slammish, it doesn;t really tell me what I need to know.

[nigel_k]

I would just make a game try then bid more if partner accepts: 3♦ if playing long suit tries and 3♣ if playing short suit tries.

[jjbrr]

I start with 2N which shows a slam try

[the hog]

Hard to answer this without knowing what your continuations, (if any are). For me, next bid up asks for further information, so like Ken Rexford, but for different reasons, I would bid 2S. 2NT for me is a long suit try in Spades here.

[Fluffy]

I'd bid 4♣ so at least one player knows what is going on.

[kenrexford]

If talking continuations, what I'm now playing I like better than no talks:

Opener's next call at the three-level is shortness and slam interest. Otherwise, he typically makes a waiting call at the two-level (here, two of the other major).

If opener makes a two-level waiting call, Responder's three-level calls are shortness, or he typically bids 2NT with extras.

There's more to it, but something like a back-and-forth approach seems to work nicely.

[Codo]

Fluffy, on Jun 10 2010, 05:49 PM, said:

I'd bid 4♣ so at least one player knows what is going on.

Unluckily he does not.
xxx,Kxxx,x,KQxxx is not too unlikely and looks like a very good slam.

I would bid 2 NT, so that partner can describe his hand. I think it is good to know the continuations afterwards, I would bid honour controls at the 4 level and splinters at the 4. but this should be discussed.

[jillybean]

Scoring: MP

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Here's the full hand, I played in 4♥. We did have some continuations after 2♦, we have more now and even more to discuss.

[Phil]

jillybean, on Jun 10 2010, 08:53 AM, said:

Scoring: MP

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Here's the full hand, I played in 4♥. We did have some continuations after 2♦, we have more now and even more to discuss.

Some creative license by your pard with that limit raise

Have you discussed 1M - 3M by a passed hand? Looks like a mixed raise to me.

Play (sort of) a Mathe Asking Bid over 3♥: 3♠ asks shortness: 3N / 4♣ / 4♦ = L/M/U shortage (4♥ = none), so

1♥ - 3♥
3♠ - 4♣
4N - 5♦
6♥

(nice ♠10 pard, I was hoping for a black K:))

[jillybean]

No, we haven't discussed 1M:3M here, I will add it to the list.