[gwnn]

I know but I am very fond of the little yellow suckers.

[aguahombre]

Having spent a half hour of my life trying to get rid of when I wanted to quote something a month ago, I know the situation.

[vuroth]

hanp, on Jun 7 2010, 03:40 AM, said:

Why do people dislike 1NT, is the hand too strong?

I just hate off-shape notrump opens. It's entirely possible that this hatred is irrational and incorrect.

[kenrexford]

1NT seems like the obvious opening.

If I had to choose a second-best, I think

1♣...2NT is closer than
1♣...2♣

[neilkaz]

Why do people dislike 1♣-1♠-3♣?

[neilkaz]

hanp, on Jun 7 2010, 03:40 AM, said:

Why do people dislike 1NT, is the hand too strong?

I dislike (not hate, just dislike) opening 1NT since I have a good 6 card ♣ suit, and two doubleton majors. I can see hands where we are set in 3NT when 5♣ makes but we can't get there after 1NT. Perhaps we have 6♣ but can't get there. Sometimes PD will transfer and we play a 5-2 major fit (at least I have honors to help) but trumps break badly and we are set when 3♣ would make.

I also dislike 1NT since I think I have a fine hand to open 1♣ and jump rebid 3♣.

That being said, opening 1NT often results in a straight forward raise to 3NT leaving the defence in the dark so I don't hate it.

However, all this is moot as all the blame here is clearly with N who underbid by an extreme ammount in passing 2♣ after failing to open a hand most modern players open.

[pooltuna]

hanp, on Jun 7 2010, 03:40 AM, said:

Why do people dislike 1NT, is the hand too strong?

The hand is the right strength. I guess it is just a general anathema to call 1NT with a 6 card minor if you can avoid it.

[Phil]

hanp, on Jun 7 2010, 03:40 AM, said:

Why do people dislike 1NT, is the hand too strong?

Automatic 1N, even though this is a total max.

I wouldn't rebid 3♣ if I opened 1♣, and 2♣ is very-old-fashioned, so I would rebid 2N.

I won't even comment on North's bidding since I strongly disagree with both decisions.

[bluecalm]

Quote

Don't you hate it when you try to quote a "b" with an end-bracket, and get an emoticon?

I tried unchecking "enable emoticons" like 3 times. It doesn't work.
I thought it work as on other computer (the one I was posting from) displayed "b" that's why I left the post in actual form.

[hirowla]

Maybe a "lower" view, based on what I've seen here.

I have no problem with North passing - although that shape is the only 12 point hand I'd ever pass!

I'm not a fan of off-shape 1NT openings - but maybe I don't understand why you would do it.

My instinct when I saw the hands was a 3♣ rebid was needed. Just because partner didn't open doesn't mean a game isn't on - partner has 6-11 points by passing originally then responding, all you need for game is to be at the upper end of the range. I guess I wouldn't consider a 2NT rebid for the same reason as not opening 1NT (also 2NT promises more points). After a 3♣ rebid, 3NT seems obvious rather than go after 5♣.

[the hog]

I have a problem with Nths first pass; that is poor, but I guess if your name is Caspar Milquetoast....? I have a small problem with the 2C rebid by south. I would have preferred opening 1NT which expresses the shape and the strength. (So I have a 6 card minor, so what?) I much prefer this to a 3C rebid. I have a huge problem with the pass over 2C.
All in all, Nth 98% and South 2%

[P_Marlowe]

bd71, on Jun 5 2010, 12:03 AM, said:

Scoring: MP

P-1♣
1♠-2♣
P

---

Hi,

First of all, the partnership needs to decide, if the North hand is an opening bid or not.
This is basically a partnership agreement thing, and is something which has to be discussed by the partnership.
Obviously for most players the North hand is an opening bid, you have 12HCP, mostly be based on Kings and Aces,
the only downgrading factor being the 4333 shape.
My guess is, that North was following the old sayibng "Aces, Spaces", which is a terrible saying.

Assuming the partnership agrees, that the North hand is a pass, than North needs to do a bit more, North has at least an
inv. raise or call it
courtesy raise, after all he discovered a fit, he should at least bid 3C, or 2NT if you prefer this.

I also think, the South hand is too strong for a 2C bid, espesially if you have agreed to open sound in 1st and 2nd seat,
espesially if the later thing is the case, South has to bid 3C.

My general advice would be, that the partnership deals a couple of hands, and than everyone writes down his opening bid.
If you do this, you will get a feeling, what p considers an opening bid and what not.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[Free]

Just take out all the passes from North's bidding box, you'll get better results!

[NickRW]

P_Marlowe, on Jun 8 2010, 06:36 AM, said:

Obviously for most players the North hand is an opening bid, you have 12HCP, mostly be based on Kings and Aces,
the only downgrading factor being the 4333 shape.
My guess is, that North was following the old sayibng "Aces, Spaces", which is a terrible saying.

I concur that it is a matter of system/style/partnership agreement whether to open the North hand or not. Also about the primes and shape. But the shape isn't the only downgrading factor - there is also the total lack of even a 9 spot, let alone a 10 - plus the four honours you do have are totally spread out among the 4 suits - no cohesion at all.

Anyway, North's final pass has got to easily be the worst choice of call - even allowing for the fact that some people take liberties in 4th seat, you gotta at least invite with North's assets. And, on top of that, cheeky 4th seat openers with just a lengthy club suit are not necessarily a good idea, so the 2♣ rebid ought to guarantee a normal minimum of high cards, IMO

Nick

[jeremy69]

Quote

I concur that it is a matter of system/style/partnership agreement whether to open the North hand or not.

South has chosen from amongst logical alternatives and North has not. To pass 2C shows a lack of understanding of how many points you need to make game unless this was an (ill conceived) attempt to get a top.

Of course you can agree as partners to pass such hands as the North one but given it has two aces and a king and is a hand the rest of the room would open it is quite an extreme position not to open it because you are worried about the lack of nines. I think to pass here is a style only preferred by trappists or those that need 4 tops in the last 4 boards to qualify. Personally if I have paid my session fee I prefer to see some action!