[hirowla]

Just wondered how people deal with Jacoby transfers and asking for aces (Blackwood/Gerber).
My question is a sequence like 1NT -> 2♥ -> 2♠ -> 4NT. What does this mean? Is it Blackwood, or a raise of NT? As far as I can tell it could be either.

How do I handle wanting to ask for aces, but not necessarily knowing whether my partner has 2 trumps in support or more (I might only have 5 myself)? What if I need to know which before asking for Aces (I might have extra distribution for a suit contract, but only want to be in a NT game). Is Gerber an option to use in some of these situations? Are there any other tricky situations in this context worth knowing about?

If it matters, I do not play Texas transfers so that is not an option (I'm not American, which seems to be the main place they are played).

Thanks,

Ian

[mike777]

hirowla, on Jun 6 2010, 05:11 AM, said:

Just wondered how people deal with Jacoby transfers and asking for aces (Blackwood/Gerber).
My question is a sequence like 1NT -> 2♥ -> 2♠ -> 4NT. What does this mean? Is it Blackwood, or a raise of NT? As far as I can tell it could be either.

How do I handle wanting to ask for aces, but not necessarily knowing whether my partner has 2 trumps in support or more (I might only have 5 myself)? What if I need to know which before asking for Aces (I might have extra distribution for a suit contract, but only want to be in a NT game). Is Gerber an option to use in some of these situations? Are there any other tricky situations in this context worth knowing about?

If it matters, I do not play Texas transfers so that is not an option (I'm not American, which seems to be the main place they are played).

Thanks,

Ian

see texas.....pull it up on the forums...this is basic.


1) you say you do not play texas
2) you do not say why that is not an option...

[nigel_k]

You need some way to set your major suit as trumps: either texas, direct jump to three of the major, transfer then bid other major, or something else. Do that then bid 4NT if you want to use RKCB. Transfer then 4NT is quantitative.

[hirowla]

I'm from Australia. While I've heard of many conventions, the only time I've heard of Texas has been online. Trying to convince a partner to use it when I've seen limited reasons for using it is hard. This is the only sequence where I can see some use for it (and I'm still not convinced).

So is bidding another suit after a transfer a game force, which forces the NT bidder to choose the transferred suit with 3 in support, support the new suit as a secondary choice (4-card support) or bid NT without support for either suit? Of course there is the possibility of not having the 2nd suit, but sometimes we need to lie a little sometimes!

So a 4NT bid after a transfer sequence is a quantitative raise in NT, but if you bit another suit (and presumably go back to the transferred suit) then bid 4NT it would be considered as Blackwood? Or would Gerber be understood (obviously it is a jump bid which is one main criteria for it)? Of course that doesn't help unless you know the trump suit (which means you have a 6-card suit).

[aguahombre]

There are other good reasons for having Texas available to you. You can differentiate between a hand which merely wants to play game in the major (texas, then pass) from a hand which was mildly interested in slam (Jacoby, then 4M).

Also getting there in a hurry when you want to go no further preempts 4th chair.

As noted in another thread, there are other uses for the two transfers, such as the Meckwell "KeyCard answering although not asked" followup to Jacoby (vs Texas, then 5-level for exclusion).

Unlike other gadgets, Texas does not replace any otherwise useful bids. I probably haven't covered all the reasons for adding this valuable gadget, but several very old texts (e.g., Hardy) have sold it very well.

[mikeh]

There is a reason that Texas is popular, and why the OP may wish to consider adopting it: it negates the need to ask these otherwise very pertinent questions.

With Texas you get to have your cake and eat it too: you can use two-level transfers then 4N as quantitative, usually with only a 5 card major, and two-level then jump as slam interest (ie a form of quantitative with emphasis on suit play) with 6+, while with no slam interest and 6 card support, bid texas and pass and with keycard aspirations and a 6+ suit, bid texas and then either regular keycard or new suit exclusion.

The only holding left uncovered is a 5 card major with a desire to ask for keycards.

This will be a rare hand indeed. If your suit is solid and you are interested only in keycards, use gerber over 1N. If your suit is not solid, the odds are high that you will only be interested in keycarding once you know how good partner's fit is.

54/55 hands are no problem: bid the second suit as gf, with interest in some contract other than 4Major or 3N. Partner will tell you whether he likes your major or not, and you can keycard over a preference back to the major.

5332 hands with slam interest and no immediate gerber ability can often be handled by a quantitative 4N, since one of the factors that partner will view as encouraging is support for the major: QJx would make anyone want to upgrade, while xx would be a bad sign. So the right contract will usually be reached without keycard (I suspect that the concern over keycard may reflect the usual over-use of keycard syndrome: but maybe that is being too presumptuous and, if so, I apologize). On those very rare hands where we really need to keycard if we find we have a fit, then make up a gf bid in a 3 card suit and hope partner can take a preference.

It is clear, it seems to me, that Texas affords significant benefit over mere Jacoby. This is obvious not only from practical experience (texas hands are relatively infrequent, but not rare) and from theoretical considerations. Anytime one can quickly differentiate between multiple hand types that would otherwise start with a single approach, there will be gain on those hand types. The questions one need to address, when considering such conventions, are whether the memory load outweighs the benefits and what are we systemically giving up?

The memory load seems, to me, to be modest: a lot less than many conventions I see relatively inexperienced players loading their CC's with. And what are we giving up???

For most B/I players, they have no use for 4♦ over 1N. Do you? Would you feel aggrieved if you weren't allowed to use that call for that meaning? When was the last time you bid it?

And there will rarely, if ever, be hands on which it is, as a matter of theory, rather than the randomness of what opening leader's hand looked like on a particular day, an advantage to be gained by having the weaker hand as declarer, so you won't usually be 'wrong-siding' 4Major...in fact, most of the time right-siding is not relevant but when it is, it will usually be advantageous to have the 1N bidder on play, especially if playing 15-17 or similar 1N.

[Wackojack]

I started a discussion on this some time ago calling Texas Transfers useless. I did this partly to provoke and now I have mellowed somewhat and do use this convention with a couple of partners.

http://forums.bridgebase.com/index.php?sho...4&hl=Texas&st=0

[hirowla]

I have some good ideas now - thanks for your suggestions.

I am partly trying to cope with a more beginner-like partner and her memory of things. One thing we have never spoken about is the 1NT-3♥/♠ bid, or the bidding another suit after a transfer and what that means. So I think we can get away without using Texas, if we use 3♥/♠ as a slam invite (so we can set trumps) and just bidding another suit over the transfer if I only have 5 cards in the suit. I guess for memory purposes, if we use Texas then we should define what 3♥/♠ mean - which is more memory work! Also I think SAYC has that meaning so I can use it when playing online.

Thanks,

Ian

[jillybean]

3♥ and 3♠ is often used to show 55 majors, invitational and 55 majors, game forcing and I would just forget about these for a while, texas is far more useful and less of a memory burden.

[jillybean]

How do you play these sequences when you have kickback available?

1.
1N:2♦
2♥:4♠

2.
1N:2♦
2♥:4N

3.
1N:4♦
4♥:4♠

4.
1N:4♦
4♥:4N

[hirowla]

1. My partner would get confused and pass! Not sure what I'd do.

2. Based on what I've seen here - with 2 trumps or 3 bad ones, pass or bid 6NT depending on maximum/minimum. With 3 good trumps or 4, 5♥ or 6♥ depending if minimum/maximum.

3. I gather it's a Texas transfer. I'd take it as a control bid in ♠ then decide depending on my hand.

4. I'd take that as a Texas, asking for aces.

The last two assumed I'm playing Texas. My partner wouldn't bid those so I'm safe given I don't! I also don't play Kickback - I'll have to look that one up!

[jillybean]

Sorry, Ian. I hijacked your thread, the idea of the question was to find out how the experts played these sequences.

[hirowla]

I'm no expert I can tell you! But I am interested in the answers too...

[neilkaz]

jillybean, on Jun 6 2010, 09:49 PM, said:

How do you play these sequences when you have kickback available?

1.
1N:2♦
2♥:4♠

2.
1N:2♦
2♥:4N

3.
1N:4♦
4♥:4♠

4.
1N:4♦
4♥:4N

OK back when a serious 2/1 PD and I played Kickback.

1) Exclusion since Texas then 4♠ is kb for ♥

2) Same old quant with 5 trumps as today

3) Kickback

4) Blackwood since responder has a hand that isn't interested in the trump king for whatever reason .. ie he likely holds it..we probably could've improved that specific sequence in context with the rest

[Cyberyeti]

We don't play Texas, we use 4D as 5-5 in the majors either to play or always going on, with 1N-2H-2S-3H-3N-4H for the hands that only want opener to go beyond the 4 level with something exceptional, and (more useful opposite our weak no trump) 4H/S to play on a hand that wants to play it.