[Phil]

mikeh, on Jun 2 2010, 08:17 PM, said:

Phil, on Jun 2 2010, 07:03 PM, said:

If I have a way to show a GF single suiter if pard responds 1N I will open 1S. Otherwise 2C.

I have that method (a js to 3♣, multi=purpose, partner bids 3♦ relay if interested) but I wouldn't use it here...this hand, with 14 hcp outside of spades, weakish spades (in context) and stopper everywhere, doesn't look like a pure one-suiter...I'd rather bid 3N over 1N, if I opened 1♠

Mike, in your opinion, how do you differentiate between:

1♠ - 1N - 3N; and

1♠ - 1N - 3♣ (multi-way) - 3♦ - 3♠; and

1♠ - 1N - 4x (non♠'s) (ostensibly an auto-splinter)?

Thanks.

[mikeh]

Phil, on Jun 3 2010, 10:23 AM, said:

mikeh, on Jun 2 2010, 08:17 PM, said:

Phil, on Jun 2 2010, 07:03 PM, said:

If I have a way to show a GF single suiter if pard responds 1N I will open 1S. Otherwise 2C.

I have that method (a js to 3♣, multi=purpose, partner bids 3♦ relay if interested) but I wouldn't use it here...this hand, with 14 hcp outside of spades, weakish spades (in context) and stopper everywhere, doesn't look like a pure one-suiter...I'd rather bid 3N over 1N, if I opened 1♠

Mike, in your opinion, how do you differentiate between:

1♠ - 1N - 3N; and

1♠ - 1N - 3♣ (multi-way) - 3♦ - 3♠; and

1♠ - 1N - 4x (non♠'s) (ostensibly an auto-splinter)?

Thanks.

1♠  1N  3N need not be 6+ spades, for one thing: it's how I would bid a 19 count with 5 good spades, assuming I hadn't upgraded to 2N. I wouldn't usually upgrade if my spades were good and I held an unstopped side suit....say AKQxx xx AJx KQx....I'd be worried that 4♠ or 5minor would be better than 3N and be unfindable after 2N, but would always bid 3N over 1N.

The pure one suiter will usually be flawed for notrump, else 3N is too attractive, and will often have 7 cards in the major...many balanced hands with 6 spades will prefer 3N and many unbalanced hands will have a biddable 4 card side suit.

BTW, 3♣ shows either blacks, or spades, or exactly 4 hearts, freeing up the js to 3♥ to promise 5 cards, which simplifies responder's rebid when he is 1=3 or 2=3 in the majors.

As for the auto splinter....I don't think I have ever even seen that sequence let alone bid it myself. I am not saying it's not a good use...tho I am a bit worried about what responder is going to do over it that can't be done by establishing the gf 1-suiter at the level of 3♠....I can see pros and cons. I think I'd need to run some simulations.....these hand types are so uncommon that there's no point is simply waiting to see which is better at the table.

[billw55]

hmm nobody for opening 2NT? I wouldn't but I thought somebody might.

I am not fond of the short suit honors, so I choose 1♠.

[awm]

mikeh, on Jun 3 2010, 10:42 AM, said:

As for the auto splinter....I don't think I have ever even seen that sequence let alone bid it myself. I am not saying it's not a good use...tho I am a bit worried about what responder is going to do over it that can't be done by establishing the gf 1-suiter at the level of 3♠....I can see pros and cons. I think I'd need to run some simulations.....these hand types are so uncommon that there's no point is simply waiting to see which is better at the table.

This is interesting because I've made the auto-splinter bid on numerous occasions and I'm sure that Mikeh has played more bridge hands than I have.

The hand where I have seven-plus good spades and a bit too much in the way of values to open 4♠ comes up with reasonable frequency. I really don't like the sequence 1♠-1N-4♠, because the reason I opened 1♠ (rather than four) was to find a marginal slam and I feel like partner will have no idea what to do with a random ten-count in this auction.

Obviously I could try for 3NT (and sometimes 3NT is best) but this is not too appealing when I have a small singleton or a void somewhere (as I often will, with seven-plus good spades). The issue is that partner will not know to "only pass 3NT with stuff in my short suit" and in fact he's going to pass 3NT almost all the time (barring 3-card spade support or a super-max that might make slam). I think I'd rather take my chances in 4♠ (which will usually make) than basically gamble on 3NT.

Perhaps if I had Mikeh's specific agreement about the three-way 3♣ jump shift, or was playing Gazzilli, I would have other options, but assuming "regular" 2/1 jump shifting in a fake minor suit is not that appealing and it's not clear that this will lead to a better auction than just blasting 4♠.

So my view is that most of the time when I have seven-plus good spades and a small singleton or void and a hand too good to open 4♠, I'm opening 1♠ and making the auto-splinter.

[Echognome]

mikeh, on Jun 3 2010, 08:42 AM, said:

1♠  1N  3N need not be 6+ spades, for one thing: it's how I would bid a 19 count with 5 good spades, assuming I hadn't upgraded to 2N. I wouldn't usually upgrade if my spades were good and I held an unstopped side suit....say AKQxx xx AJx KQx....I'd be worried that 4♠ or 5minor would be better than 3N and be unfindable after 2N, but would always bid 3N over 1N.

What is 1♠ - 1N; 2N for you?

[Gerben42]

2NT opening for me treating it as 5332 with such huge doubletons.

[mikeh]

Echognome, on Jun 3 2010, 01:28 PM, said:

mikeh, on Jun 3 2010, 08:42 AM, said:

1♠  1N  3N need not be 6+ spades, for one thing: it's how I would bid a 19 count with 5 good spades, assuming I hadn't upgraded to 2N. I wouldn't usually upgrade if my spades were good and I held an unstopped side suit....say AKQxx xx AJx KQx....I'd be worried that 4♠ or 5minor would be better than 3N and be unfindable after 2N, but would always bid 3N over 1N.

What is 1♠ - 1N; 2N for you?

non-forcing: 17-18 (I often upgrade 17 counts with a 5332 pattern when playing 15-17).

3N would be a hand just too good for that call, either some 5332 or some 6322 with running (I hope) spades

[gwnn]

whereagles, on Jun 3 2010, 03:21 PM, said:

If you open 1♠, you risk to hear the dreaded

1♠ 1NT

after which you'll be pretty much stuck for a bid:

- 3♠ is an underbid
- 3m or 3♥ = lol (in my opinion)
- 2NT is a misdescription and underbid (though probably the best bid here)
- 4♠ is a flyer

you included everything except 3NT, what do you play that as?

[Jlall]

3N does not show a 6322 21 count come on

and it also doesn't show 5332 19...

[gwnn]

I know, that's why I open 2♣, but it's still closest to this hand, much closer than 3♠ or 2NT or the other choices from Nuno's list. I mean whereagles listed the whole 3 level except 3NT.

[ArtK78]

I still cannot bring myself to open 2♣ on this hand. My requirements for a 2♣ opening bid are 22+HCP for a balanced hand or a 3 loser hand if unbalanced. This hand is too light by either measure (and I am not saying that I would treat it as a balanced hand).

Perhaps when I am as old as Mikeh I will look at this differently (I am only 3 years behind). After all, Oswald Jacoby, when asked why he opened light, said something to the effect that when you are as old as he was, you never knew if you would get another opening bid!

[whereagles]

We open light because this is an attacking game. It usually pays off to be agressive. Actually, only like 15% or so of the hands are misfits and even then one side may make game on pure power.