[peachy]

On another bridge forum, a French player said this [cut & pasted quote] - something that I can't believe is true.

With regard to psyches I simply related that when we played recently in 2 federal Promotion level tournaments that psyches were explicitly forbidden.

To satisfy my curiosity, could someone knowledgeable about the French regulations please clarify or provide a link to the relevant regulation.

[hrothgar]

I suspect that a "promotion level tournament" is some kind of restricted event for novices. Its still not bridge, but its a bit more comprehensible.

As I recall, Italy bans psyches outright or some such idiocy...

<<Based on Blujak's later post, I might be miss-attributing the policy in Austria. Maybe we could split the difference and go with Trieste...)

[bluejak]

France used to ban psyches of 1-level openings in 1st or 2nd seat, but I think that has gone many years ago. However, I have a feeling Austria still does.

Of course, some jurisdictions ban psyches of certain artificial calls, which has always been legal. We had a hand that might have been interesting over the weekend but only if one fact was changed. I shall start a new thread to see what people think.

But I am sure psyches are often banned in novice events and have no worries about that.

[jillybean]

bluejak, on Jun 1 2010, 04:26 PM, said:

[snip]
But I am sure psyches are often banned in novice events and have no worries about that.

I find it difficult to understand how this can be enforced.

1. Who monitors the bidding to detect 'psyches? I wouldn't expect novies to be able to identify psyches during a game.

2. Who judges if these 'psyches' are indeed psyches or misbids, ill-conceived bids or forgotten agreements?

[blackshoe]

That would be the TD's job, Jilly.

[jillybean]

blackshoe, on Jun 1 2010, 05:20 PM, said:

That would be the TD's job, Jilly.

I could perhaps see that working once a psyche had been reported but it is impossible for a TD to monitor tables for psyches.

[bluejak]

TD's do not monitor tables for revokes or bids out of turn, either. They just deal with matters brought to their attention. If you are told it is wrong to make a bid when you do not have the hand, and it happens, you call the TD and ask him.

[blackshoe]

I've not seen anyplace that hires or assigns someone to monitor the bidding or the play at tables to ensure the rules are followed.

[jillybean]

The point I am trying to make here is that I think it is very unlikely that a novice would notice a psyche. I think the number of actual psyches x the number of reported psyches in a novice game would be zero. The only effect the rule appears to have is that of ingraining a belief that psyches are bad and should be banned, rather than using the opportunity to introduce novices to one of the intricacies of the game.

[NickRW]

jillybean, on Jun 2 2010, 02:24 AM, said:

The point I am trying to make here is that I think it is very unlikely that a novice would notice a psyche. I think the number of actual psyches x the number of reported psyches in a novice game would be zero. The only effect the rule appears to have is that of ingraining a belief that psyches are bad and should be banned, rather than using the opportunity to introduce novices to one of the intricacies of the game.

It makes some sense in the context of a once a month club game that is supposed to welcome new people where more experienced people are playing.

However:
1) It is considered bad form to psyche a newbie - indeed, in general, it is idiocy risking P getting the wrong idea when you rate to do well on the board anyway.
2) Most beginners bidding is so random that quite a lot of what they do could be considered to be a psyche even though not intended as such.
3) As you say, they aren't going to notice anyway.

[jillybean]

I agree experienced players shouldn't psyche in games aimed at attracting new players

[blackshoe]

NickRW, on Jun 1 2010, 10:40 PM, said:

2) Most beginners bidding is so random that quite a lot of what they do could be considered to be a psyche even though not intended as such.

Let's not get carried away. If it wasn't intended as a psych, it wasn't a psych.

[jeremy69]

I think that having the "no psyche" rule in a novice game sets the tone. In general the police don't go around looking for people not wearing seat belts. Those who are done for it have usually been stopped for 54 other offences. It still helps to make seat belt wearing more common.
If the more experienced player knows that this is not on it may dissuade them from turning up and if it doesn't and it comes to light they might be asked not to come if they can't exercise some control.

[pooltuna]

jillybean, on Jun 1 2010, 07:29 PM, said:

blackshoe, on Jun 1 2010, 05:20 PM, said:

That would be the TD's job, Jilly.

I could perhaps see that working once a psyche had been reported but it is impossible for a TD to monitor tables for psyches.

nah you just need to reposition your 48 cameras for your 12 table event

[Vampyr]

jeremy69, on Jun 2 2010, 12:16 PM, said:

I think that having the "no psyche" rule in a novice game sets the tone.

Of course, this game may be called bridge or it may take place under the aegis of an NBO or SO recognised by the WBF. But not both.

[Cascade]

jillybean, on Jun 2 2010, 03:36 PM, said:

I agree experienced players shouldn't psyche in games aimed at attracting new players

I disagree.

This is very patronizing.

[richlp]

Cascade, on Jun 2 2010, 02:29 PM, said:

jillybean, on Jun 2 2010, 03:36 PM, said:

I agree experienced players shouldn't psyche in games aimed at attracting new players 

I disagree.

This is very patronizing.

I agree it's patronizing. I also agree that "experienced players shouldn't psyche in games aimed at attacting new players"

[axman]

richlp, on Jun 2 2010, 02:53 PM, said:

Cascade, on Jun 2 2010, 02:29 PM, said:

jillybean, on Jun 2 2010, 03:36 PM, said:

I agree experienced players shouldn't psyche in games aimed at attracting new players 

I disagree.

This is very patronizing.

I agree it's patronizing. I also agree that "experienced players shouldn't psyche in games aimed at attacting new players"

Within 2 weeks of taking up bridge I was bluffing. Within 6 weeks the club put an end to it and I put an end to the club. Too bad because it was one of the strongest fields in the country.

One of the gravest disservices done to bridge players is to tell them they are to be incensed when opponents bluff.

[blackshoe]

axman, on Jun 2 2010, 05:07 PM, said:

Within 2 weeks of taking up bridge I was bluffing. Within 6 weeks the club put an end to it and I put an end to the club.

Firebombing the club would seem to be just a tad extreme, though I can understand the urge.

Quote

  Too bad because it was one of the strongest fields in the country.

One of the gravest disservices done to bridge players is to tell them they are to be incensed when opponents bluff.

Agree with that last, and given the penultimate "strongest fields" comment, find it just bizarre that such a field would do so.