[Deanrover]

Scoring: IMP

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Our actual auction was

1NT-2c-2s-4d(splinter)-(x)-p-4N-5c(1430)-6S

How should this hand have been bid?

p.s. funny note about this hand. My partner misclicked and started spades by playing a low one from South. She got an undo and later finessed into Qx. This introduces an inference I have not seen before. Why would the opps let you undo? It could only because they want you to finesse. So you should drop the Queen on the second round!

Scoring: IMP

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Later on you hold this hand. West passes North opens 1c, after a weak 2H ovecall South bids 2s, then 4hs from East, double from North and 6ds from South. How can you find the grand?

[luke warm]

you'll get different sequences because not everyone will open 1nt (different ranges, whatever).. i'd personally open 1c and expect something like

1c : 1h
1s : 4d
4h : 4nt
5c : 6s

and if it's down, it's down... i think this is a decent slam personally

[1eyedjack]

The problem is finding 6C or 6H, rather than 6S, I think.

[inquiry]

I will respond giving the trick/treatment Mishovnbg and I use. I will start with the second hand first, as it demonstrates the use of a convetion we have been pushing on this forum some time.

1C - (2H) - 4D - (4H)
PS - (PS) - 6D - (PS)
7D

or

1C - (2H) - 4D - (4H)
PS - (PS) - 4N - (PS)
5C - (PS) - 7D

The key bid is 4D which we play as leaping michaels, showing long diamonds and spades. Misho has forced me to play this leaping michaels as forcing, which makes teh pass over 4H as forcing. In the second auction, since trump agreement is not known, we use 6 keycard blackwood, so 5C shows 3 of the six keycards (As well as extra value). The grand is easy to bid.

The first hand is a little tricky to get out of spades and into another suit after a 1NT opening bid, but not impossible..

1N-2C-2S-4D-(X)-4S

Option 1.. 4NT-5D-5H-5S-5N-6C-Pass

4D=splinter,
4S=minimum hand, no slam intrest (forcing pass in effect, and RDL avail to show A)
4N = rkcb for spade
5D = 1 or 4 (obviously 1)
5H = Trump queen?
5S = No,
5NT = pick a slam
6C = I can play in clubs if you like
Pass = solves problem of missing spade queen to me.

Or you can start 1C.. now misho and I have two very interesting options over 1S...

1C-1H-1S --> we can use 4D as splinter or we can use 2D as spade fit and game force or very close to game force value. Of course 4D is game force too, but 2NT when with singlton shows control rich bid and 4D shows more distriutional. So this would be a 2NT bid.. .I know this use of 2NT is unusual.. we call it jacoby 2NT by opener...

1C-1H-1S-2D-3C-3S-3N-4C-4H-4N-5D-5H-5S-6C

2D = game force checkback
3C = good suit
3S = trump agrreement
3N = serious 3N
4C, 4h = cue bid, 4h denies A or K of D
4N = RKCB
5D = 1
5H = trump Q
5S = no trump Q
6C = ok, lets play where we have adequate trumps. Also could bid 6H at matchpoints

Ben

[Deanrover]

Is 5NT Pick a slam here? p suggested correctly that I should ask for S Q after he BW response, but after she bids 5s, is 5N nat? Should I just rebid 6H? Should she pass?

[inquiry]

Deanrover, on Jul 30 2004, 10:41 PM, said:

Is 5NT Pick a slam here? p suggested correctly that I should ask for S Q after he BW response, but after she bids 5s, is 5N nat? Should I just rebid 6H? Should she pass?

I don't think you can ask for the trump queen, find it missing, and then get out of your known spade fit and into exactly 5NT. So 5NT can not be natural.

Nor can 5NT be grandslam force, after negative queen find. It has to be pick a slam....and suggest that missing trump queen is not good.. or it could be some kind of grand slam try. if it is a grand slam try, of course you can not bid thhat.

Doi u really thing kx partner would pass 6h?

ben

[whereagles]

Deanrover, on Jul 30 2004, 11:37 PM, said:

p.s. funny note about this hand. My partner misclicked and started spades by playing a low one from South. She got an undo and later finessed into Qx. This introduces an inference I have not seen before. Why would the opps let you undo? It could only because they want you to finesse. So you should drop the Queen on the second round!

Director would prolly adjust the score if you played it like that..

[EricK]

As regards the second hand, how can North not raise to 7? Try to construct a hand for South consistent with his bidding that doesn't have a play for 15 or so tricks.

Eric

[inquiry]

EricK, on Jul 31 2004, 02:59 AM, said:

As regards the second hand, how can North not raise to 7? Try to construct a hand for South consistent with his bidding that doesn't have a play for 15 or so tricks.

Eric

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[EricK]

inquiry, on Jul 31 2004, 07:13 AM, said:

EricK, on Jul 31 2004, 02:59 AM, said:

As regards the second hand, how can North not raise to 7? Try to construct a hand for South consistent with his bidding that doesn't have a play for 15 or so tricks.

Eric

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Are you denying there's a play for 15 tricks here?!

I am not saying that a grand is certain, but on the information we have, it must be a good bet.

Eric

[1eyedjack]

If anyone has the means to do it I would be interested in a simulation that determines which is likely to be better between 6C and 6S given that one hand is known to have K862, K7, QJ, KQJ97 and all that you know about the other hand is that he is 4-5-1-3 shape and game forcing.

Your Club losers, if you have any, will be the same whether Clubs or Spades are trumps. The same MAY be true of Spade losers, but there is certainly the possibility, if (as in this case) responder's Hearts are good and Spades poor, of discarding your Spade losers on Hearts and ruffing a Diamond. If I had to punt a slam then given responder's shape I would opt for Clubs at IMP scoring. Clearly different at MP.

South is out of range for my preferred 1N opener but if playing that range it would start (in my methods)

1N 2H
2S 3S

where:
2H = forcing, showing
(1) invite with <5S and <4H or
(2) GF+ with 4S and >4H
2S = non-forcing, minimum with 4S (is he worth max?)
3S = 4-5-1-3 GF.

and you are on the way there.

If opener rates to be max opposite the 2H bid then

1N 2H
3C 3S

3C = any max
3S = as before.
Here the Spade fit has not been expressly agreed (yet), but opener is the one making the decisions.

[pclayton]

Deanrover, on Jul 30 2004, 10:37 PM, said:

p.s. funny note about this hand. My partner misclicked and started spades by playing a low one from South. She got an undo and later finessed into Qx. This introduces an inference I have not seen before. Why would the opps let you undo? It could only because they want you to finesse. So you should drop the Queen on the second round!

I can't believe you'd even suggest this.

[Trpltrbl]

I would open the first hand 1 NT, 1♣ is my choice.

Mike

[Deanrover]

pclayton, on Aug 1 2004, 12:08 AM, said:

Deanrover, on Jul 30 2004, 10:37 PM, said:

p.s. funny note about this hand. My partner misclicked and started spades by playing a low one from South. She got an undo and later finessed into Qx. This introduces an inference I have not seen before. Why would the opps let you undo? It could only because they want you to finesse. So you should drop the Queen on the second round!

I can't believe you'd even suggest this.

I guess British humour does not translate to online forums......