[mike777]

My take:


One can make a decent in theory argument it is unfair....unjust or unreasonable to blame Obama.

In practice my take is......they did not cap the well this weekend...etc........he is going to be hurt by all of this....hurt bad.......in the sense of Katrina.....


Take all the other issues...health care...the deficit...the wars.....the economy...unemployment...etc........now add oil soaked beaches and birds.....and triple it.

--------------


Going back to just theory I think this again raises the issue......government cannot do alot of stuff......such as create alot of new jobs......stop oil...etc...../solve your problem/ but perhaps this is another thread.

[luke warm]

this is one of those things in which people love to talk blame, but there really isn't any blame... unless something comes to light, such as bp failing to utilize some technology that could either stop the leak or destroy that which has already leaked (for, say, profit reasons), this is just a huge accident

[hrothgar]

luke warm, on May 30 2010, 02:57 PM, said:

this is one of those things in which people love to talk blame, but there really isn't any blame... unless something comes to light, such as bp failing to utilize some technology that could either stop the leak or destroy that which has already leaked (for, say, profit reasons), this is just a huge accident

Quote

But probe a little more, and maybe it's not so surprising. BP has the worst safety record, by far, of all the companies drilling along the coast. They regularly flout the law: They've got 760 citations for "egregious, willful safety violations" from OSHA; their nearest competitor in the oil industry, Sunoco, has 8 (Exxon, the last poster-child for oil-industry irresponsibility, has only 1.) They've now had three fatal accidents in the U.S. in the last five years. There was plenty of evidence that BP had prior knowledge of the problems that led to its Texas City refinery explosion, which killed 15 people, and the horrific Alaska North Slope oil spill. The fines the company has had to pay just haven't sufficiently cut into its profits.

http://www.salon.com/news/louisiana_oil_sp.../top_kill_fails

[Winstonm]

Quote

this is just a huge accident

Huge accident=Act of God
God=BP

[babalu1997]

this is all the normal consenquece of the free marketeers and globalizators

governements are corrupt, corporations can be trusted to do good for the people

[andrei]

luke warm, on May 30 2010, 06:57 AM, said:

this is one of those things in which people love to talk blame, but there really isn't any blame... unless something comes to light, such as bp failing to utilize some technology that could either stop the leak or destroy that which has already leaked (for, say, profit reasons), this is just a huge accident

too bad GWB is not the president anymore, everybody would know who is to blame.

[kenberg]

No one held Mr. Bush responsible for not stopping the hurricane and no one should hold Mr. Obama responsible for not capping the well. No one knows how to do either. Mr. Bush was judged on how he dealt with the tragic aftermath, and is entirely proper for Mr. Obama to be judged on that basis as well. The government does not know how to cap that well. It is supposed to know how to deploy resources to minimize the catastrophic consequences. We shall see how he does.

[3for3]

He has already failed in containing the consequences. The administration's failure to have more resources dedicated to this is a failure similar to the slow Katrina response.

To be clear, I am talking containment, not the capping of the well itself

Danny

[blackshoe]

I have not followed this closely, and I am no expert on oil spills, but it may not have been possible to contain this one.

[hrothgar]

3for3, on May 31 2010, 06:20 PM, said:

He has already failed in containing the consequences. The administration's failure to have more resources dedicated to this is a failure similar to the slow Katrina response.

To be clear, I am talking containment, not the capping of the well itself

Danny

Uh huh...

The most common number that I've seen says that there are 20,000 people working full time to try to contain the damage. Just how many more do we need? 20K, 100K, a million?

As I said before,

Quote

All the King's horses, and all the King's men
Couldn't put Humpty back together again

Regretfully, this isn't the sort of thing that you can clean up in any meaningful way after the fact. The only way to effectively contain these sorts of problems is very heavy regulation before hand.

Its very clear that Federal government screwed this up, big time. (For the record, I think that the blame needs to get spread around to Obama, Bush I, Clinton... I think that the rot dates back at least to Reagan).

I wish that Obama hadn't capitulated to the "Drill Baby Drill" idiots trying to get support for the energy bill. This would have worked a lot better had he stood his ground and opposed new drilling from the get go.

[Winstonm]

Quote

I wish that Obama hadn't capitulated to the "Drill Baby Drill" idiots

President Capitulation did an obama about oil - now there's a shock...and awe. If this guy ever suggests an original idea it will be his first, and even then Rahm will make him negotiate it away in order to "look" centrist.

[luke warm]

3for3, on May 31 2010, 10:20 AM, said:

He has already failed in containing the consequences.  The administration's failure to have more resources dedicated to this is a failure similar to the slow Katrina response.

To be clear, I am talking containment, not the capping of the well itself

Danny

from maureen dowd's op-ed

Quote

Once more, he has willfully and inexplicably resisted fulfilling a signal part of his job: being a prism in moments of fear and pride, reflecting what Americans feel so they know he gets it.

“This president needs to tell BP, ’I’m your daddy,’ “ scolded James Carville, a New Orleans resident, as he called Barack Obama’s response to Louisiana’s new watery heartbreak “lackadaisical.”

[hrothgar]

Winstonm, on Jun 1 2010, 02:08 AM, said:

Quote

I wish that Obama hadn't capitulated to the "Drill Baby Drill" idiots

President Capitulation did an obama about oil - now there's a shock...and awe. If this guy ever suggests an original idea it will be his first, and even then Rahm will make him negotiate it away in order to "look" centrist.

Grow up...

I'd stack the legislative accomplishments of the Obama administration against any in my lifetime. He hasn't done everything the way I might have wanted, but its bullshit to act as if he hasn't achieved anything.

Health Care reform
avoiding a second Great Depression
Bailing out the auto industries
Looks like we're going to see DADT repealed

and all this with what might be the most useless, obstructionist opposition in the history of the country.

[Winstonm]

Quote

I'd stack the legislative accomplishments of the Obama administration against any in my lifetime.

Richard,

You need to live longer. Obama's attempt for extremely modest healthcare reform while placating the health insurance companies is a great accomplishment versus LBJ and the Civil Rights Act, Medicare and Medicaid?

I also noticed you said "legislative accomplishments". I suppose you do not give him such high marks in foreign affairs or civil rights?

Quote

and all this with what might be the most useless, obstructionist opposition in the history of the country.

I agree with this - the opposition is mutant lifeforms, but the problem is some of this opposition comes from within the Democratic party with those good 'ol boy blue dog duds of democracy.

Still, why is Obama trying to placate morons?

[PassedOut]

Winstonm, on May 31 2010, 07:22 PM, said:

Still, why is Obama trying to placate morons?

Can't speak for Richard, but in my opinion Obama's alternative is to fail to get anything accomplished at all. I fault US voters for electing so many morons.

[Winstonm]

PassedOut, on May 31 2010, 07:59 PM, said:

Winstonm, on May 31 2010, 07:22 PM, said:

Still, why is Obama trying to placate morons?

Can't speak for Richard, but in my opinion Obama's alternative is to fail to get anything accomplished at all. I fault US voters for electing so many morons.

The parties tell us for whom we can vote. Own the parties and you dictate who is on the ballot. For whom other than the balloted candidates would you have us vote?

[PassedOut]

Winstonm, on May 31 2010, 08:05 PM, said:

The parties tell us for whom we can vote. Own the parties and you dictate who is on the ballot. For whom other than the balloted candidates would you have us vote?

Not all candidates are morons.

[jdonn]

Winstonm, on May 31 2010, 08:05 PM, said:

PassedOut, on May 31 2010, 07:59 PM, said:

Winstonm, on May 31 2010, 07:22 PM, said:

Still, why is Obama trying to placate morons?

Can't speak for Richard, but in my opinion Obama's alternative is to fail to get anything accomplished at all. I fault US voters for electing so many morons.

The parties tell us for whom we can vote. Own the parties and you dictate who is on the ballot. For whom other than the balloted candidates would you have us vote?

If you think the choice is between 2 candidates and that both are morons then perhaps you shouldn't vote altogether. Having Moron A beat Moron B 936 to 395 rather than 19,500 to 13,311 might not help us in that given election but could definitely send a powerful message regarding future elections.

[cherdanno]

I think the American electorate has been trying to send that message for many years. I haven't noticed it's power yet.

[Winstonm]

jdonn, on May 31 2010, 08:39 PM, said:

Winstonm, on May 31 2010, 08:05 PM, said:

PassedOut, on May 31 2010, 07:59 PM, said:

Winstonm, on May 31 2010, 07:22 PM, said:

Still, why is Obama trying to placate morons?

Can't speak for Richard, but in my opinion Obama's alternative is to fail to get anything accomplished at all. I fault US voters for electing so many morons.

The parties tell us for whom we can vote. Own the parties and you dictate who is on the ballot. For whom other than the balloted candidates would you have us vote?

If you think the choice is between 2 candidates and that both are morons then perhaps you shouldn't vote altogether. Having Moron A beat Moron B 936 to 395 rather than 19,500 to 13,311 might not help us in that given election but could definitely send a powerful message regarding future elections.

I am waiting for the moron runoff election after the first ballot is tied 0-0.