[Fluffy]

ok, ok, tihnking more I realice I am one of the players who might bid 2♠ on a yarborough and then complain when partner raises . Still this is worth 3♠ IMO.

[OleBerg]

Unless I had some stern knowledge about quaks in aprtners bidding, I'd bid 3♠. That would get my hand across to partner, who would hopefully be able to make an intelligent decision.

It might be a slight overbid, but as it is highly descriptive, I simply have to bid it.

[MFA]

I would pass. I have doubled twice with this rather ordinary 16 count. Partner must wake up if he has something and we have a game. Partner could easily have just three spades and he doesn't need as much as in Justin's example to bid 2♠ with three spades imo.

[hanp]

Definitely agree with pass, we bid our hand.

[mcphee]

Pass looks reasonable to me. I expect responder to set up a GF with Jxxx S and Axxxxx C after the second double. After all we have made a minimum bid with 2C and partner has expressed a desire to compete further. If we can not appreciate that this 6-4 black hand we are all talking about is BIG now we should be reviewing our methods.

I would not even double 2D with this hand, what is the point as they are not going to play there. Assume you pass 2D and they take H preference,now you might consider another double.

[gnasher]

MFA, on May 29 2010, 11:26 AM, said:

I would pass. I have doubled twice with this rather ordinary 16 count. Partner must wake up if he has something and we have a game. Partner could easily have just three spades and he doesn't need as much as in Justin's example to bid 2♠ with three spades imo.

I agree with that evaluation. I'm still not sure whether 2♠ shows a 3-card suit or a poor hand with 4-6 (or even 4-5) in the blacks. With xxxx xx x J10xxxx, maybe advancer would bid 2♣ in response to the takeout double because a club partscore is likely to play betetr than a spade partscore?

[hanp]

It doesn't sound like the opponents have 10 hearts and 23 HCP Andy.

[pooltuna]

Little Kid, on May 28 2010, 08:20 PM, said:

Scoring: IMP

(Pass)-Pass- (1♥) - X
(Pass) - 2♣ - (2♦) - X
  (2♥) - 2♠ - (Pass) - ?

---

LHO deals and passes, as does partner. RHO opens 1♥ and the auction proceeds. Do you move now?

I assume there must be a 2 card disparity in length between ♣ & ♠. Consequently I wanted to bid 4♠ but 3 should show this hand and leave partner some leeway.

[gnasher]

hanp, on May 29 2010, 01:07 PM, said:

It doesn't sound like the opponents have 10 hearts and 23 HCP Andy.

I know, but I'd moved on to what it should show in abstract, rather than what I think he's got on this hand. It's probably unworkable to use it to show a good 3-5 when partner has a 4153 16-count, but as a bad 4-6 when partner has a balanced 22-count.

[Jlall]

gnasher, on May 29 2010, 09:11 AM, said:

hanp, on May 29 2010, 01:07 PM, said:

It doesn't sound like the opponents have 10 hearts and 23 HCP Andy.

I know, but I'd moved on to what it should show in abstract, rather than what I think he's got on this hand. It's probably unworkable to use it to show a good 3-5 when partner has a 4153 16-count, but as a bad 4-6 when partner has a balanced 22-count.

Yes my final conclusion was that I thought it should show a 4-6 yarb, but since I don't think partner has that on this hand I think he has 3-5 with some values. I would never bid 2C on a 4-5 yarb.

[Little Kid]

Scoring: IMP

---

So I am guessing everyone who passes over 2♠ now would have bid 2♠ initially instead of 2♣? What about the ones that still raise, do you bid 2♠ over this first double?

[xcurt]

I would pass. Not sure which of JLalls hands partner has but

* agree that doubling 2D is extras without primary club support, not penalty
* in that context, we have a minimum
* our hand is getting worse on the auction, since the DK is a favorite to face shortness, and one of the black suits isn't splitting

[OleBerg]

Little Kid, on May 29 2010, 05:49 PM, said:

Scoring: IMP

---

So I am guessing everyone who passes over 2♠ now would have bid 2♠ initially instead of 2♣? What about the ones that still raise, do you bid 2♠ over this first double?

2♣ belongs in another forum. It ranges below 3♠.

2♠ seems pretty straight forward, unless I have some agreement about 2♥, that could cater to this hand. (But I would assume 2♥ promised another bid?)

[Hanoi5]

2♠ is very clear after the first double. 3♠ (or even 4) if my 2♣ was a mechanical mistake.

[Bbradley62]

The_Hog, on May 28 2010, 11:28 PM, said:

The 2H bid is weird in itself, why not raise immediately.

The 2♥ bid is not a raise, it's a preference.

[aguahombre]

Ole: "another forum" for the 2C advance to the takeout double presumably refers to B/I.

Many, many beginners would --and do--just bid a suit cheaply in response to a t/o, regardless of their strength. Some of them would even bid 1♠. Of course these people's partners always bid as if it was a normal 6-infinity response to an opening bid --and they land on their feet. When the minimal advance really has a yarb, somehow the doubler knows this .

However, these responses with 9+ don't belong in that forum, either. They don't belong on the planet; and people who bid this way won't be reading fora. They haven't even read a beginning book on bidding.

[jdonn]

Yes obviously I never believed partner could have only 5 clubs, or a hand this strong. But go me!

[whereagles]

This pretty much depends on pard's tendencies.

A not-so-experienced player would probably have a 64 or 54. Opposite a more advanced player, justin's interpretation of 3 spades has more merit.

I'm not surprised pard came up with that somewhat unexpected 54 of 9 hcp. An expert would probably have bid 2♠ instead of 2♣.

[hanp]

Idiotic.