[gwnn]

Qxx
AKxxxx
x
Jxx

KT9xxxx
-
KT9x
xx

1♦-2♥-3♥-4♠
p-p-5♦-p
p-5♠-x-end

I realise that there were a number of bad bids (including 5♦ on some 2344 11 count) but I would like you to rate them if possible to understand the magnitude of each bad bid.

all white matchpoints.

[the hog]

Well, I think the 4S bid is absurd; the S are not good enough and you have a Heart void opposite partner's WJO. I don't blame 5S so much as I have a great hand for spades.

[jdonn]

North gets almost all the blame for the 2♥ overcall. AK and Qxx of the other major? lol?

[cherdanno]

jdonn, on May 24 2010, 08:57 PM, said:

North gets almost all the blame for the 2♥ overcall. AK and Qxx of the other major? lol?

Oh come one, maybe its an anti-percentage bid, but it can hardly be as bad as bidding 4S on a mediocre 7-card suit with a void in partner's suit and KT9x in opponent's suit!

[jdonn]

I don't like either bid either, but I for sure think 2♥ is worse. As an overcall it's just completely laughable. South took a really bad and wild chance and obviously gets some blame but north was in a very common and basic situation.

[cherdanno]

I think the typical IMP loss from the 2H bid is maybe 0.5, the typical IMP loss from the 4♠ bid more like 4.

[ggwhiz]

I rate the 2♥ bid at zero and the 4♠ bid at -20

Wait, 2♥ is at -50 and 4♠ -99

[pooltuna]

gwnn, on May 24 2010, 08:13 PM, said:

Qxx
AKxxxx
x
Jxx

KT9xxxx
-
KT9x
xx

1♦-2♥-3♥-4♠
p-p-5♦-p
p-5♠-x-end

I realise that there were a number of bad bids (including 5♦ on some 2344 11 count) but I would like you to rate them if possible to understand the magnitude of each bad bid.

all white matchpoints.

This would be a hell of a lot easier if you set up the diagram with enough information that tells who dealt where the hands you are showing are in relation to the dealer rather than expecting us to figure it out. Jeez you have been posting here how long and you can't even make life simpler for the rest of us?

Now that that is off my chest I think South needs to bear the brunt of the blame He stepped way off the reservation with 4♠ and consequently bears any fault incurred by his side.

[jdonn]

I would say in hindsight north getting almost all the blame was definitely an overbid because south's bid was so bad. But I would also say 2♥ loses a lot more than .5 imps per board. You miss a lot of spade games, as well as go for numbers with a suit like AKxxxx. I am more forgiving than most to south because, well sometimes you just have to know your customers with bad bids in competition like that. After all he did get them to bid 5♦ for no reason at all.

I also felt like focusing on 2♥ because, bad as it is, I could imagine people easily overlooking it in a problem like this after all that happened after that.

[jjbrr]

2♥ and 4♠ are both hopeless, obviously.

[gwnn]

wow pooltuna it must take a genius to figure out that the hand which bid 2H is North and not South.

essntially you spent an irritated paragraph about formatting because I didn't say 'west deals' which if I am counting correctly is 2 words? jeez. and this is coming from pooltuna who recently made a play problem with declarer sitting North?

[hanp]

Agree with cherdano, 2H was bad but 4S was much worse.

[cloa513]

1♦,1♥,2♥(maybe),2♠,3♦,4♠,5♦ is much better
even 1♦,2♥,3♥,3♠,4♦,4♠,5♦ is OK
Then its much easy for south to judge to double.

[mcphee]

The 2H jump is just not a weak jump o/c. The 4S bid, I am sure my response to this would be censored.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

#1 2H ist ok. (1)
#2 4S is ..., the suit is bad, one has a void in p long suit,
#3 both Passes are fine
#4 5S is ok, it could be argued, that pass over 5D is forcing,
and one has Qxx in s p long suit and a diamond single

(1) I overlooked the fact, that it was a jump overcall, and if
it was intended as a weak jump overcall, than the hand is too strong
If 2H was intended as a strong jump overcall, the hand is too weak.
I think 2H is ok, if you happen to play intermediate jump overcalls,
2H is also ok, if facing a passed hand, in which case one has some
leeway for making tactical bids, nevertheless 4S is a lot worse, assuming
the decision to bid a tactical 2H was made conciously.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[awm]

Guys, it's matchpoints.

I think the 2♥ bid has a lot going for it at this form of scoring. It puts the opponents to a lot of guesses and wins a lot of partscore auctions. Sure, you could catch partner with a good hand for spades and miss an occasional game, but with RHO opening you're not that likely to have game here, and you will get some compensating wins when LHO acts over 2♥ and gets a bad result.

The 4♠ bid on the other hand seems quite awful, with a lousy suit and a void in partner's WJO. Having bid 4♠ and heard 5♦, it must be right for south to double since he has a couple of trump tricks and partner is a huge favorite to take a trick in hearts (given south's VOID, E/W probably have a few hearts apiece). Again, it's MP scoring so it pays a lot to double 5♦ (even if it's just down one). You certainly don't want partner competing to 5♠ on 3-card support, which is a pretty normal action especially looking at a diamond singleton or void (marked on the auction basically).

[junyi_zhu]

gwnn, on May 25 2010, 01:13 AM, said:

Qxx
AKxxxx
x
Jxx

KT9xxxx
-
KT9x
xx

1♦-2♥-3♥-4♠
p-p-5♦-p
p-5♠-x-end

I realise that there were a number of bad bids (including 5♦ on some 2344 11 count) but I would like you to rate them if possible to understand the magnitude of each bad bid.

all white matchpoints.

The worst bid is 4S, it's an overbid, about two levels more than a normal bid.
Other bids are OK, although I would most likely bid 1H. 2H certainly can gain quite a few times when they get preempted or they misguess CJ or SQ.

[Rodney26]

Since it hasn't been mentioned, I think South's failure to double 5D was an error with that chunky holding. He could have a fairly great hand to bid 4S, and the auction suggests partner is really short in diamonds so a few spades over there is likely; he doesn't want partner saving. At white all, the opps should have 7 hearts and it doesn't seem like too much to expect partner to come up with one heart winner even if 2H was a complete joke.

If it is a really bad day, -550 and -400 shouldn't matter too much.