[gnasher]

(1) It goes

2♠ dbl pass

You have a 3424 shape, and you play Lebensohl. What does a minimum 3♥ bid look like?

(2) Same question, but the auction is

2♠ pass pass dbl
pass

[mikeh]

xxx KQxx xx Axxx

xxx KQxx Jx Axxx

[655321]

After the direct double I would bid 3♥ with pretty much any 3424 8 count.

Maybe after the 4th seat double it should be a tiny bit stronger, but in practice I would still bid 3♥ with most if not all 8 counts.

[jdonn]

Agree I start at about 8+ with a 4 card suit. If I had a 5 card suit then 7 would be normal.

[dake50]

And the maximums for 3H?
And the GFs w/wo 4xH?
Does anyone else leben 2N, then rebid above 3S is GF 2-suited?

[aguahombre]

The balancing double of 2S is where we differ. Not wanting to hang partner for a shapely 10 count double, our non-leben 3H shows an opening hand which could not act directly over 2S.

[Phil]

dake50, on May 19 2010, 09:51 PM, said:

And the maximums for 3H?
And the GFs w/wo 4xH?
Does anyone else leben 2N, then rebid above 3S is GF 2-suited?

My maximum is 11. Take any of Mike's and add a K.

GF with(out) 4 hearts? Depends on our agreements about direct / indirect 3N and cues.

2N then 3S is also invitational, not some two suiter.

[Jlall]

I'm about .5 points heavier after a balancing X. Probably like half the 8 counts direct, and few 8 counts after a balancing.

[Fluffy]

uhh.. I am like 2 points heaviear after the balancing double.

Even more if partner was a passed hand, not sure if lebenshol is optimal then but never messed around to change it.

[gnasher]

Fluffy, on May 20 2010, 08:01 AM, said:

Even more if partner was a passed hand, not sure if lebenshol is optimal then but never messed around to change it.

It might be better to play:
2NT = weak with clubs or invitational+ with diamonds
3♣ = weak with diamonds or invitational+ with hearts (5 if exactly invitational)
3♦ = weak with hearts or game-forcing with clubs
3♥ = invitational with exactly four hearts
3♠ = stop-asking

You lose the ability to show an invitational hand with clubs, but gain a lot of game-forcing sequences, and gain an extra way to show an invitation with hearts.

[OleBerg]

Fluffy, on May 20 2010, 09:01 AM, said:

uhh.. I am like 2 points heaviear after the balancing double.

Even more if partner was a passed hand, not sure if lebenshol is optimal then but never messed around to change it.

I am 2.5.

I expect partner to reopen om a decent 10-count, so I would definitely like to have a way to tell him to raise with a decent 14.

[karlson]

Maybe it's obvious, but I would point out that my minimums for 3m are about a queen heavier than the minimum for 3♥, for which I more or less agree with the examples.

[Fluffy]

gnasher, on May 20 2010, 08:14 AM, said:

Fluffy, on May 20 2010, 08:01 AM, said:

Even more if partner was a passed hand, not sure if lebenshol is optimal then but never messed around to change it.

It might be better to play:
2NT = weak with clubs or invitational+ with diamonds
3♣ = weak with diamonds or invitational+ with hearts (5 if exactly invitational)
3♦ = weak with hearts or game-forcing with clubs
3♥ = invitational with exactly four hearts
3♠ = stop-asking

You lose the ability to show an invitational hand with clubs, but gain a lot of game-forcing sequences, and gain an extra way to show an invitation with hearts.

An italian friend showed me something more simple, but probably with less accuracy even if it includes invitationals with clubs:

2NT= invitational (or more) -> 3♣ = negative, others GF
anything else= sing off.

[bluecalm]

Quote

Not wanting to hang partner for a shapely 10 count double, our non-leben 3H shows an opening hand which could not act directly over 2S.

If you bid 3♥ with only "opening hands which could not act directly over 2♠) ie. something like: Axx KJxxx KJx xx you lose the purpose of lebensohl in my opinion as partner will be lost if he has normal t/o double with say 15hcp (as you are now 0-11 basically).

I think those hands should just bid game. If partner has some shape those games will have some play.

[OleBerg]

bluecalm, on May 21 2010, 09:16 AM, said:

Quote

Not wanting to hang partner for a shapely 10 count double, our non-leben 3H shows an opening hand which could not act directly over 2S.

If you bid 3♥ with only "opening hands which could not act directly over 2♠) ie. something like: Axx KJxxx KJx xx you lose the purpose of lebensohl in my opinion as partner will be lost if he has normal t/o double with say 15hcp (as you are now 0-11 basically).

I think those hands should just bid game. If partner has some shape those games will have some play.

But those 15(+) hands are less frequent.

Sometimes preempts works. What you have to do is minimize the damage.

Edit: Thats why I am 10.5-11 as responder to a reopening double.