[bill1157]

I am interested in trying out the ko's at the next regional. How do they work?

i.e. in a round of 12 boards (compact) do you play 6 boards, compare then another 6?
In a session of boards regular KO do you play 3 sets of 8 or 4 sets of 6?

Also, do all brackets pay gold points?

Bill

[jjbrr]

bill1157, on May 17 2010, 08:14 AM, said:

I am interested in trying out the ko's at the next regional.  How do they work?

i.e. in a round of 12 boards (compact) do you play 6 boards, compare then another 6?
In a session of boards regular KO do you play 3 sets of 8 or 4 sets of 6?

Also, do all brackets pay gold points?

Bill

In the compact KOs you play a 12 board match and then compare with your teammates and that round is over. There are two rounds per session, so the round of 16 and the round of 8 in the afternoon and the semifinals and finals at night (or from one morning to the next or however the schedule goes).

Often they won't have exactly 16 teams in the bracket, so you might play a 3-way in the first and/or second round. Suppose you're playing EW with your partner, you will play 6 boards against one team, then move to the 3rd table in the 3-way and play 6 more boards. This constitutes one match, except it's against two opponents. If you're not the lowest scoring of the three, you move on to the second round.

In a full session KO, ie 24 boards, you play 12 boards, compare, and then play 12 more. So you play one round in the afternoon of 24 boards, and then the round of 8 is another 24 boards in the evening. The next day would be the semifinals and the finals, 24 boards each match, over 2 sessions as well. If you have a 3-way in a 24 board KO, you play 6 boards against one team, move to the third table and play 6 more. Then you compare and repeat the process.

From ACBL.org:

Quote

In open-bracketed events (such as a bracketed knockout team), each bracket will award some percentage of the overall award as gold, irrespective of the masterpoint holding of the teams in that bracket.

Keep us updated on how you do

[ArtK78]

Another point that may be of interest. After the first mini-knockout match of 12 boards, the winners advance to the round of 8 in the main draw and the losers form an 8 team consolation event. I do not believe that participation in the consolation event is mandatory.

[jjbrr]

ArtK78, on May 17 2010, 08:32 AM, said:

Another point that may be of interest.  After the first mini-knockout match of 12 boards, the winners advance to the round of 8 in the main draw and the losers form an 8 team consolation event.  I do not believe that participation in the consolation event is mandatory.

It is mandatory.

Even if it isn't mandatory, it's very unfair to the rest of the teams in the bracket if you decide to drop out. The team you're matched up against gets a free win and the others have to compete for their win, which is unfair.

[bill1157]

jjbrr, on May 17 2010, 09:29 AM, said:

Keep us updated on how you do

Will do, it will be 2nd week of July in D.C.

thanks for the info, yes there are a couple of good players in my club who need some small number of gold points, so I thought this would be a fun way to get them.

Bill

[jjbrr]

bill1157, on May 17 2010, 08:41 AM, said:

jjbrr, on May 17 2010, 09:29 AM, said:

Keep us updated on how you do

Will do, it will be 2nd week of July in D.C.

thanks for the info, yes there are a couple of good players in my club who need some small number of gold points, so I thought this would be a fun way to get them.

Bill

That DC regional is a pretty good tournament. I had a really good time there.

[ArtK78]

jjbrr, on May 17 2010, 09:34 AM, said:

ArtK78, on May 17 2010, 08:32 AM, said:

Another point that may be of interest.  After the first mini-knockout match of 12 boards, the winners advance to the round of 8 in the main draw and the losers form an 8 team consolation event.  I do not believe that participation in the consolation event is mandatory.

It is mandatory.

Even if it isn't mandatory, it's very unfair to the rest of the teams in the bracket if you decide to drop out. The team you're matched up against gets a free win and the others have to compete for their win, which is unfair.

No, it is not unfair, as the consolation is a new event, and there are no predetermined brackets. The consolation brackets are drawn up after the first round is concluded.

Having said that, I still don't know if it is mandatory to play in the consolation.

[jjbrr]

ArtK78, on May 17 2010, 08:49 AM, said:

jjbrr, on May 17 2010, 09:34 AM, said:

ArtK78, on May 17 2010, 08:32 AM, said:

Another point that may be of interest.  After the first mini-knockout match of 12 boards, the winners advance to the round of 8 in the main draw and the losers form an 8 team consolation event.  I do not believe that participation in the consolation event is mandatory.

It is mandatory.

Even if it isn't mandatory, it's very unfair to the rest of the teams in the bracket if you decide to drop out. The team you're matched up against gets a free win and the others have to compete for their win, which is unfair.

No, it is not unfair, as the consolation is a new event, and there are no predetermined brackets. The consolation brackets are drawn up after the first round is concluded.

Having said that, I still don't know if it is mandatory to play in the consolation.

The consolation is definitely not a new event. It's the second half of a session.

I suppose it's not mandatory to play the second half of a pairs game if your first 13 boards aren't very good either, but how do you suppose people would react? Granted you dropping out of the consolation wouldn't affect quite as many people, but it's still the same in principle.

[jjbrr]

http://web2.acbl.org/codification/CHAPTER%...Section%20e.pdf

Quote

E. No team may enter a Knockout unless they have every intention of completing the event. Willful violation of this regulation will be considered a serious offense and subject to disciplinary action. No Knockout event is finished until there is a clear winner (a tie for lst/2nd is not allowed).

F. Teams that choose to forfeit a scheduled match will forfeit all masterpoints earned in the event, will not be allowed to participate in any other ACBL sanctioned event (at any site) until the final match of the event has been completed, and, may be subject to disciplinary action. However, with the Director's approval, a team may concede a match at half-time (or at the third quarter of a longer match) if they feel they have little chance of winning the match.

G. Any player that withdraws from a team, without cause, will only be entitled to match awards previously earned. In addition, that player will not be allowed to participate in any ACBL sanctioned event until such time as his team is eliminated from the event or has completed the event.

I'll let the lawyers discuss if any of this is relevant to consolations, but it seems applicable to me.

Obv G doesn't apply.

[jjbrr]

Though Art is right. If the event is a 24-board KO that lasts 4 sessions, they sometimes have a 5-8 consolation. Those are not mandatory to participate in at all (and AFAIK rarely ever get any participation).

They might have even gotten rid of those (?)

[Phil]

jjbrr, on May 17 2010, 11:05 AM, said:

Though Art is right. If the event is a 24-board KO that lasts 4 sessions, they sometimes have a 5-8 consolation. Those are not mandatory to participate in at all (and AFAIK rarely ever get any participation).

They might have even gotten rid of those (?)

Around here, the 'consolation' for a bracketed KO is the loser Swiss.

[jjbrr]

or the loser BAM

[CSGibson]

quick warning about compact KO's - the brackets tend to be much bigger ranges. Our team, with a combined 4300 masterpoints, realized we were in the top bracket of the Medford regional compact KOs when our first round opponent started talking about the last tournament he had played in - the Cavendish.

[PrecisionL]

Maybe. In Reno there were NO consolations in the compact KOs. Local option apparently. Also, there were NO regular KOs Sat - Sunday.

By-the-way, I think compacts are a waste of time and money.

[barmar]

I think it's mandatory to play in the second match of the session. But if you lose your first match (going into the consolation bracket) and then win the second (qualifying for the semi-final of the consolation), it's quite common to drop out rather than come back for the second session. The semi-final and final can be combined into a 3-way.