BBO Discussion Forums: Forcing Pass - BBO Discussion Forums

Jump to content

  • 2 Pages +
  • 1
  • 2
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

Forcing Pass

#1 User is offline   Little Kid 

  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 323
  • Joined: 2008-May-26
  • Location:London
  • Interests:Genetic Engineering, Squash, Languages, Travelling, Table Tennis, Movies, Judo, Swimming, Scuba Diving, Climbing...

Posted 2010-May-11, 16:20

All Red

1♥ - (2♣)- 4♥ - (Pass)
Pass-(5♣)-Pass-(Pass)
?

Forcing pass or not?
♣ Veni, vidi, proficisci ♣
0

#2 User is offline   kfay 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 2,208
  • Joined: 2007-July-01
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Michigan
  • Interests:Science, Sports

Posted 2010-May-11, 16:23

No! :P

Evidence: http://forums.bridge...showtopic=39006 .... etc.

We never announced ownership. The caddies can't tell if this is a sac (not uber-obvious)... like none of the criteria have been filled.
Kevin Fay
0

#3 User is offline   Jlall 

  • Follower of 655321
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 3,293
  • Joined: 2008-December-05
  • Interests:drinking, women, bridge...what else?

Posted 2010-May-11, 16:33

no
0

#4 User is offline   gwnn 

  • Csaba the Hutt
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 13,027
  • Joined: 2006-June-16
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:bye

Posted 2010-May-11, 16:34

No thanks.
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
      George Carlin
0

#5 User is offline   dake50 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 2,211
  • Joined: 2006-April-22

Posted 2010-May-11, 20:13

Partner chose 4H not to turn on FP.
Did he not have Q, other forces to turn FP on?
Would partners miss this distinction in announcing H-fit? Then he has the helm.
0

#6 User is offline   pooltuna 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 3,814
  • Joined: 2009-July-23
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New Orleans

Posted 2010-May-11, 21:13

Little Kid, on May 11 2010, 05:20 PM, said:

All Red

1♥ - (2♣)- 4♥ - (Pass)
Pass-(5♣)-Pass-(Pass)
?

Forcing pass or not?

no 3♣ no FP seems sensible
"Tell me of your home world, Usul"
the Freman, Chani from the move "Dune"

"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."

George Bernard Shaw
0

#7 User is offline   effervesce 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 885
  • Joined: 2007-March-28

Posted 2010-May-11, 23:10

Pard would have needed to have bid 3♣, or 4♣ or some other strength showing bid before this would be a FP.
Ming

--Always remember you're unique. Just like everyone else.
0

#8 User is offline   andy_h 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,962
  • Joined: 2007-September-14
  • Location:Australia
  • Interests:The Universe, Traveling, Squash, and Scandinavia.

Posted 2010-May-12, 00:16

FP is crazy
- Andy -

We are all connected to each other biologically, to the Earth chemically, and to the rest of the universe atomically.
We're in the universe, and the universe is in us.
0

#9 User is offline   nigel_k 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 2,207
  • Joined: 2009-April-26
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Wellington, NZ

Posted 2010-May-12, 00:25

Arguably it would not be FP even if partner had bid 3♣.
http://bridgethoughts.blogspot.com
0

#10 User is offline   Free 

  • mmm Duvel
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 10,728
  • Joined: 2003-July-30
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Belgium
  • Interests:Duvel, Whisky

Posted 2010-May-12, 01:54

Why would pass be forcing? Partner didn't promisse any values...
"It may be rude to leave to go to the bathroom, but it's downright stupid to sit there and piss yourself" - blackshoe
0

#11 User is offline   P_Marlowe 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 11,209
  • Joined: 2005-March-18
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2010-May-12, 02:11

Technical speaking - No.

Practical speaking yes.

Responder failed to create a FP situation, he could have bid 3C
instead of 4H.
One of the purposes of the 3C bid is besides starting a game try seq.
or a possible slam investigation seq., is, to make it clear, that the
hand belongs to us.

Anyway - either bidding 5H is fine or X, to help in the decision process,
I would prefer to have FP in the given seq. available.

With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
0

#12 User is offline   peachy 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 2,056
  • Joined: 2007-November-19
  • Location:Pacific Time

Posted 2010-May-12, 02:35

Not FP. The game was not bid constructively. Even if responder went via 3C, he could still have just limit raise values, so FP again isn't *on*.
0

#13 User is offline   Little Kid 

  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 323
  • Joined: 2008-May-26
  • Location:London
  • Interests:Genetic Engineering, Squash, Languages, Travelling, Table Tennis, Movies, Judo, Swimming, Scuba Diving, Climbing...

Posted 2010-May-12, 04:05

My partner said bidding a vulnerable game made it forcing pass. Am I correct in thinking that you need to show game-forcing values in order to establish a forcing pass auction?
♣ Veni, vidi, proficisci ♣
0

#14 User is offline   Cascade 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Yellows
  • Posts: 6,772
  • Joined: 2003-July-22
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New Zealand
  • Interests:Juggling, Unicycling

Posted 2010-May-12, 06:46

Little Kid, on May 12 2010, 10:05 PM, said:

My partner said bidding a vulnerable game made it forcing pass. Am I correct in thinking that you need to show game-forcing values in order to establish a forcing pass auction?

Some play that - I don't.
Wayne Burrows

I believe that the USA currently hold only the World Championship For People Who Still Bid Like Your Auntie Gladys - dburn
dunno how to play 4 card majors - JLOGIC
True but I know Standard American and what better reason could I have for playing Precision? - Hideous Hog
Bidding is an estimation of probabilities SJ Simon

#15 User is offline   gwnn 

  • Csaba the Hutt
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 13,027
  • Joined: 2006-June-16
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:bye

Posted 2010-May-12, 07:05

nigel_k, on May 12 2010, 06:25 AM, said:

Arguably it would not be FP even if partner had bid 3♣.

I like to play FP then. Probably in a forum minority on this issue. Limit+ values and them on the 5 level is FP (even after a 2/1 in competition).
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
      George Carlin
0

#16 User is offline   effervesce 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 885
  • Joined: 2007-March-28

Posted 2010-May-12, 08:07

gwnn, on May 12 2010, 08:05 AM, said:

nigel_k, on May 12 2010, 06:25 AM, said:

Arguably it would not be FP even if partner had bid 3♣.

I like to play FP then. Probably in a forum minority on this issue. Limit+ values and them on the 5 level is FP (even after a 2/1 in competition).

ditto gwnn. FP for 5m over 4M when we cueraise.
Ming

--Always remember you're unique. Just like everyone else.
0

#17 User is offline   Phil 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 10,094
  • Joined: 2008-December-11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:North Texas, USA
  • Interests:Mountain Biking

Posted 2010-May-12, 08:52

Little Kid, on May 12 2010, 05:05 AM, said:

My partner said bidding a vulnerable game made it forcing pass. Am I correct in thinking that you need to show game-forcing values in order to establish a forcing pass auction?

Let him go for -800 or -880 a few times and see if he still wants to play it as forcing.

Raises to game do not create a force. Cuebids, fitjumps, splinters, whatever - should, but some of these are dubious if we are NV.
Hi y'all!

Winner - BBO Challenge bracket #6 - February, 2017.
0

#18 User is offline   Fluffy 

  • World International Master without a clue
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 17,404
  • Joined: 2003-November-13
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:madrid

Posted 2010-May-12, 09:53

effervesce is right IMO.


Phil: I don't play fit showing bids stablishing any force, is it standard?
BridgeGod: my personal website with interactive problems and articles
0

#19 User is offline   CSGibson 

  • Tubthumper
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 2,835
  • Joined: 2007-July-11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Portland, OR, USA
  • Interests:Bridge, pool, financial crime. New experiences, new people.

Posted 2010-May-12, 20:51

No.
Chris Gibson
0

#20 User is offline   FrancesHinden 

  • Limit bidder
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 8,483
  • Joined: 2004-November-02
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:England
  • Interests:Bridge, classical music, skiing... but I spend more time earning a living than doing any of those

Posted 2010-May-13, 15:23

Fluffy, on May 12 2010, 04:53 PM, said:

effervesce is right IMO.


Phil: I don't play fit showing bids stablishing any force, is it standard?

I don't play fit jumps as setting up a forcing pass above the level of our fit. The fit jumper can double to show extras.

More interesting question:

1H 3C (weak) 4H P
P 5C P

Should this be forcing?
Should it be forcing against weak players and not against strong players?
0
  • 2 Pages +
  • 1
  • 2
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users