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They jump to 4S against our strong club

#1 User is offline   bluecalm 

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Posted 2010-May-05, 15:53

Conservative, sane opponents. Both sides vulerable.

Scoring: IMP


1 - 4 - it's our turn;

dbl now is basically points
4NT would be 2 suiter (ok ?)

If that's clear one way or the other (it's not clear at all to me) how would you need to change the hand to make it close ?
I will post my action later. I am not happy with it.
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#2 User is offline   Jlall 

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Posted 2010-May-05, 16:00

Double. This is analagous to 4S-X. Double is takeout oriented but you might have to double on a wide range of shapes. I would expect partner to pass with a balanced hand, bid with extreme shape, and use his jdugement on hands in between that (sometimes bidding sometimes passing).

I certainly wish this was pure takeout but I would always X with Ax Kxxx Qxx Jxxx because I have no alternative.

In general they have put a lot of pressure on you. One of you has shown some points, the other one has shown nothing, and neither of you has shown a suit. You're not going to come close to having great accuracy here. Most of the time when you have enough values you're going to double them and take a plus rather than venturing into the unknown at the 5 level.

That being said you're also unlikely to have a lot of spade values/trump tricks, so you gain by both sides being able to bid over a double, and lose little. I mean if you have QJ9x xx xxxx xxx you don't get to double, but you so rarely have that, and when you do partner often reopens X anyways.
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#3 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2010-May-05, 16:06

Was it a deterministic 4S?
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
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#4 User is offline   bluecalm 

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Posted 2010-May-05, 16:20

Quote

Was it a deterministic 4S?


I don't get it :P
Opponents were older pair. They have good hand for sure for that bid, nothing crazy.
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#5 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2010-May-05, 16:34

was a bad joke, aimed at someone else
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
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#6 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2010-May-06, 01:52

Dbl, it shows points, I have points, so I show what I have.
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#7 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2010-May-06, 02:50

Free, on May 6 2010, 02:52 PM, said:

Dbl, it shows points, I have points, so I show what I have.

Dbl, it shows takeout shape, I have takeout shape, so I show what I have.
"The King of Hearts a broadsword bears, the Queen of Hearts a rose." W. H. Auden.
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#8 User is offline   hanp 

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Posted 2010-May-06, 04:43

I thought everbody had gone 426 828 329 041 until I saw the forum and the title. After a strong pass I agree with double.
and the result can be plotted on a graph.
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#9 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2010-May-06, 05:25

are those unicode characters? I give up.
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
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#10 User is offline   kfay 

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Posted 2010-May-06, 07:20

It's Han's phone number. Call him!
Kevin Fay
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#11 User is offline   dake50 

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Posted 2010-May-06, 07:44

Looks a systemic gotcha!
Was 1C strong? Nope. What assurance/foundation for action?
Is offensive 3-suiter allowed for? Nope. What lie to use?
Does X suggest DT? Nope. Cards, but no clear act? Offensive hand?
Can I leave this to partner to reopen when he has 'stuff'?
For takeout? Suggesting DT?

I pass this. Save other calls for real values.
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#12 User is offline   hanp 

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Posted 2010-May-06, 08:08

426 828 329 041 = 653321 squared, obviously.
and the result can be plotted on a graph.
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#13 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2010-May-06, 08:20

dake50, on May 6 2010, 02:44 PM, said:

Looks a systemic gotcha! 
Was 1C strong?  Nope. ~snip~

Yes it was, look at the topic title...

+ LOL @ 653321² :P
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#14 User is offline   655321 

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Posted 2010-May-06, 08:26

429 445 613 041
That's impossible. No one can give more than one hundred percent. By definition that is the most anyone can give.
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#15 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2010-May-06, 08:34

hanp!!
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
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#16 User is offline   hanp 

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Posted 2010-May-06, 08:34

Ah wrong number, no wonder csaba didn't get it.
and the result can be plotted on a graph.
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#17 User is offline   PrecisionL 

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Posted 2010-May-06, 13:11

PASS: I have the distribution but not the strength to encourage partner to bid.
Ultra Relay: see Daniel's web page: https://bridgewithda...19/07/Ultra.pdf
C3: Copious Canape is still my favorite system. (Ultra upgraded)(PM me for notes)

Played a Mosca (Nightmare-Fantunes-Millennium like) system with canapé, 11-14 NT with Keri Invites and Intermediate 2 bids (10-14), & 15+ 1 opener with transfer negatives @ 1-level & transfer positives @ the 2- and 3-levels. Canape after opening 1 or 1 (into a minor suit only). Played Naturelle in 2018. 2019 playing Canapé Club: 1 promises 4+ and 10+ hcp and is forcing 1 round (after George Coffin's NBC: Natural Big Club).

Playing Transfer Precision with Steve Moese, 2019-2020. Santa Fe Precision published 8/21/19. Playing Lyle Poe's 1C (11-14/18+) with transfer responses and Relays in 2020. Also Magic experiment (Science Modernized) with Lenzo. Rakesq & Keylime & I working on modernizing Noble Shore's Recursive system.
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#18 User is offline   bluecalm 

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Posted 2010-May-07, 16:46

I passed. I think it's not a good decision. If partner has 5card suit I am happy to play there. If I pass he may even pass with 6carder which would be a disaster.
I guess they sometimes make but not too often and I certainly have enough in playing strength to not disappoint.

Thanks all for answers :)
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