[njustus]

---

West North East South
Pass 1D Pass 1S
Pass 3H Pass Pass


North probably should have opened 2 Clubs but I (South) wanted to keep the bidding open. I didn't think I had a good enough hand to support the jump inspite of the hearts.

Discounting the "faulty" 1 Diamond open should South have gone to game?

[dicklont]

What is 2♥? Reverse and forcing.
North could have bid that and you would have had to raise to 3♥.

If 3♥ is an even stronger reverse, you should definitely raise it to 4.

I like to play 1♦ - 2♠ as a weak hand (2-5 hcp) with 6 spades.
That would have described the South hand very nicely.
When North bids 3♥ after that you can raise confidentialy because you know your first bid gave a good picture of your hand.

[njustus]

I was just thinking that since I didn't have enough points to legitimately respond initially that it was ok to pass later. I guess that once I commit myself then I should honor forcing bids.

Thanks

[MFA]

njustus, on Apr 25 2010, 06:22 PM, said:

I was just thinking that since I didn't have enough points to legitimately respond initially that it was ok to pass later.  I guess that once I commit myself then I should honor forcing bids.

Thanks

As a general rule of thumb I think you should always respect your partner's forcing bids if you have any excuse at all for doing so.
I mean to pass a jump shift, apart from having sub-sub values you should also have a desperate misfit. With QJxx in hearts this hand is fine and nothing to be ashamed of.

Btw most play 2♥ (instead of 3♥) as a forcing reverse, and 3♥ would then either be something artificial or promise 6-5 (the Italian style).

[jjbrr]

The N hand is too strong for a 1-level opener.

If 3♥ shows a better hand than 2♥, it is 100% forcing, without any exceptions.

I don't recommend 3♥ being better than 2♥.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

Sure 4H.

You passed a forcing bid, and the only thing that justifies this action is
success, otherwise no mercy.

More precise: Yud did hit the jackpot, partners 3H bid led to an upgrade
of your hand, due to the fit, your hand becomes now worth at least 6HCP,
thats what you promised with 1S, so why pass?

With kind regards
Marlowe

PS: Lots of peoble would play 3H as a splinter, agreeing spades.

[Codo]

To put Michales word in another way:

Do you think that Qjxxxx, xx,xx,Kxx is a better hand for partner then yours?
And you would not pass with that hand, won't you?

So, if 2 Spade was not avaiable in the first round and 3 ♥ shows partner hand (It had not for me), you must bid on....

[Fluffy]

just think through your partner's mind:

Do I open 2♣? mmm, no need, my partner answers very light, so it won't be passed out, 1♦ is enough.


1♦-1♠

what do I bid now?, if I bid 2♥ and partner answered weak again, he might pass my reverse again!, I can't stand this anymore, I have to do something so he cannot pass this time. I am gonna bid a jump high reverse, this way he cannot pass.

so he bids 3♥ you pass and he thinks he should find another partner.

[gwnn]

I remember when I first learned bridge I learned that 2♣ is 22+ no matter what. Then I realised that it's also a question of tricks, but then I realised that something like 22+ is actually a good guideline even for distributional hands. You can open 2♣ on one suited hands somewhat lighter but with two or three suiters it's not bad to just count the HCP and blindly apply it.

Anyway here are two guidelines written both I think by Fred Gitelman, the father of these forums and universally accepted as a role model for all of us:

*if you can imagine a balanced yarborough (a hand with no A K Q J or T) that makes game cold opposite your hand, open it 2♣.
*however, if you can imagine a sequence after you opened 2♣ where you think you should bid 6 over 6 with your hand because you think they might make, you should not open 2♣.

In this case the second criterion is clearly not going to be violated. For the first one I can offer you

xxx
xxxx
xx
xxxx

Anyway the North hand should probably be treated as a balanced 22-24 so then it's clearly in range. So Fred's rule number 1 is something that you should only be applied to unbalanced hands (I think), there would be numerous balanced 22 counts that do not meet it, e.g. any hand basically with a small trebleton!

[ONEferBRID]

When did a Reverse-Jump ( 3H! ) cease to be a splinter for Responder's suit ( ♠ here ) ?

[helene_t]

Well in this case opener meant it to a be strong reverse and responder took it as such, so the fact that most people here play it as a splinter isn't really relevant to the question of whether responder should pass or not.

[Free]

I would've rebid 4♠, since 3♥ is a splinter with ♠ support. North can just rebid 2♥ to show this hand, in which case South supports (since it's forcing).

[kfay]

If you pass forcing bids, partner will be mad at you (even when you're right!!--usually)

[straube]

njustus, on Apr 25 2010, 11:22 AM, said:

I was just thinking that since I didn't have enough points to legitimately respond initially that it was ok to pass later. I guess that once I commit myself then I should honor forcing bids.

Thanks

When partner has a giant two-suited hand, it often is easier to describe by opening 1 of a suit. With a distributional hand it is likely that you or the opponents will make a bid and give him a second chance to act.

If you had passed originally, partner has one last chance because his RHO may balance. Over that balancing bid, he can drive to game.

Once you make a bid, you have extended a life-line to your partner that his RHO may have offered had you passed originally. You can't then cut that line. The opponents certainly won't give him another chance if you do so. You have to keep bidding whether your proud of your initial response or not.

[pooltuna]

njustus, on Apr 25 2010, 10:57 AM, said:

---

West North East South
Pass 1D Pass 1S
Pass 3H Pass Pass


North probably should have opened 2 Clubs but I (South) wanted to keep the bidding open. I didn't think I had a good enough hand to support the jump inspite of the hearts.

Discounting the "faulty" 1 Diamond open should South have gone to game?

2♥ should have been adequate to show this hand. Consequently some play 3♥ as a singleton with 4 card ♠ support and a game forcing hand. As for the actual hand you probably need to bite the bullet and open 2♣ as a strong artificial GF hand unless balanced planning on a 2NT rebid. You will probably end up in 4♠ but at least you have a shot at a game bonus

[dicklont]

kfay, on Apr 26 2010, 07:08 PM, said:

If you pass forcing bids, partner will be mad at you (even when you're right!!--usually)

I'm willing to make an exception when partner was right.

[mikeh]

I would have expected that most players (not all) would take 3♥ as a splinter. Even more players (beyond those playing a system using limited opening bids) would use 2♥ as FORCING.

Assuming that the partnership used the minority view that 3♥ was stronger then a forcing reverse (illogical tho that seems), surely responder cannot pass. He in fact now has a real responding hand! He has the easiest 4♥ call in the world.

Of course, now North has a problem, because he didn't open his 2♣ opener, and he then destroyed his bidding space by the silly 3♥ call.

The bidding, after the questionable opening, could and perhaps should go:

1♦  1♠
2♥  2N lebensohl/ingberman
3N  4♥
Pass in comfort

[peachy]

Yes, you should go to game if 3H was a GF two suiter [stronger than a 2H reverse, which is also forcing]. Do not pass forcing bids. Even when passing a forcing bid would give a good score, it will be NO GOOD because it plants seeds of mistrust for future.

A lot of people would think 3H was splinter, agreeing spades as trump. But perhaps you don't have splinters on card.