[Phil]

Jlall, on Apr 14 2010, 03:17 PM, said:

If I played reverse flannery I would be happy to rebid 2C on 1444 and it wouldn't be close.

Good idea.

[whereagles]

I treat 4441 with weak singleton as if a minor had 5 cards and act accordingly. If the singleton is A,K,Q I consider it balanced.

[mohitz]

mikeh, on Apr 15 2010, 12:23 AM, said:

But I don't know of any authority for the proposition that one 'should' open 1444 big with 1♣, and I have read a LOT of bridge materials, primarily but not exclusively re NA treatments.

I vaguely remember Fred once posted that opening 1C on big 1444 hands is a good idea because partner might keep the bidding alive when he has diamonds by bidding 1D with sub minimum values but would be less likely to respond if we open 1D and he had clubs.

[gwnn]

let's have a search-off.

[kenrexford]

So sexy with tools.

If you play an unbalanced diamond (good idea, IMO), open 1♦ on many of these and jump to the appropriate NT at second bid if partner bids spades.

If you play my two-way strong openings, on the last two you open 2♣, rebid 2♠ as a relay, and if partner cannot raise hearts bid 3NT after the relay showing 1444 pattern (or 4♣ for the same pattern if you think 3NT is too weak).

If you play a strong club system, open 1♣.

If you play an open-range 2♣ as a 4-by-1, open 2♣ and after the relay show these ranges, then show the stiff. Permutations if partner doesn't relay will be easy.

But, with basic old standard, ugh!

[kfay]

mohitz, on Apr 15 2010, 05:52 AM, said:

mikeh, on Apr 15 2010, 12:23 AM, said:

But I don't know of any authority for the proposition that one 'should' open 1444 big with 1♣, and I have read a LOT of bridge materials, primarily but not exclusively re NA treatments.

I vaguely remember Fred once posted that opening 1C on big 1444 hands is a good idea because partner might keep the bidding alive when he has diamonds by bidding 1D with sub minimum values but would be less likely to respond if we open 1D and he had clubs.

Yeah that's basically my understanding as well.

Or they will make a preemptive raise in clubs with clubs and you can bid 6♣ and such and such.

[mohitz]

gwnn, on Apr 15 2010, 05:31 PM, said:

let's have a search-off.

I beat you.

http://forums.bridge...topic=33906&hl=

[gwnn]

oh no, I actually found that post but didn't see that paragraph

[mikeh]

But Fred actually appears to favour 1♦...he merely pointed out that there would be some hands on which 1♣ would work better....and that either minor was better than 2N (and bear in mind that the OP in that thread specified holding a stiff A or K).

[peachy]

1D first three, 2C the last but it could be the rebid problem is difficult in the last. This is an old nut, and people have different styles/agreements how to open 4-4 minors. Or 4441 hands with both minors. In SAYCor 2/1 with unknown partner, 1D.