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3 level bids over 1nt opener

#1 User is offline   georgeac 

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Posted 2010-March-31, 03:35

My partner and I currently play the system listed below but I am open to ideas and thoughts or something completely different.

3 is Puppet Stayman
3 is Hearts and minor
3 is Spades and minor
3 is both minors

Also, we have just added the minor part but I cant for the life of me figure out why this is a good idea. Does anyone know the reasoning, since most of the 3 level bids over 1nt opener seem to involve two suited bids.
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#2 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2010-March-31, 03:50

most people play

3=both minors, can be arbitrarily weak
3=both minors, at least 55, GF
3/=54 or 45 in the minors, 3-1 or 1-3 in the majors. some people bid their singleton, others their trebleton.

you don't need the 3 bid so much to be honest because you can bid 2NT ostensibly transfer to diamonds and opener can bid

3=don't like diamonds (therefore usually likes clubs a little bit more)
3=like diamonds

this frees up 3 to be, for example, puppet stayman.

I also like 3 to be 5-5 in the majors inv or inv+ because you don't have a bid for that hand. but of course then you'd need to play some minor suit stayman variant, which has fallen out of favour these days.
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#3 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2010-March-31, 04:08

I play the following:
3 = trf 3, either weak or slam interest
3 = invite in one of the Majors (6+ cards)
3M = GF, 0-1M, 3OM, 5-4/5-5m

The 3-level structure depends on what you play at 2-level ofcourse...
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#4 User is offline   Jlall 

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Posted 2010-March-31, 04:23

3 level bids should be dedicated to hands that you cannot show otherwise in your system, so advising you on what to use the level bids as without knowing the rest of your system doesn't make that much sense.

Most people can show major + minor by transferring and bidding the minor though.
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#5 User is offline   Ant590 

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Posted 2010-March-31, 04:25

I think the three-level bids you play should help patch up holes in the rest of the responses, so as Frederick said, it depends on what you play at the 2-level.

For instance, playing them as natural slam tries is not terrible if you don't have a way of making a slam try via a transfers. If you play 4-suited transfers, you may find that your three-suited hands are tough to bid, and you might use all the 3-level bids to show shortage. etc,etc.
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#6 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2010-March-31, 10:53

gwnn, on Mar 31 2010, 04:50 AM, said:

most people play...

Really? Perhaps there are regional differences, but around here there is a diverse mix of 3x calls. The most common structures around here are:

3:

--xsfr to 3
--puppet stayman
--slammish
--weak 5-5 in minors
--inv

3:

-- strong both minors
-- inv

3M:

-- inv / strong both majors
-- slam try with a bad suit
-- 13(45)

Clearly, a lot of the definition of your 3x calls has to do with how you play 2 + 2N calls.
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#7 User is offline   mohitz 

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Posted 2010-March-31, 10:58

As others have said, this depends on what the rest of your system looks like.

If you are willing to put in some serious effort, I would suggest you look at the 1NT chapter of Revision Club. It has a complete system after 1NT largely based on Al Roth's methods in Picture bidding. I think it is really good.

It is available on www.bridgewithdan.com/systems
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#8 User is offline   kenrexford 

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Posted 2010-March-31, 12:08

Rather surprised to not see what I play.

Sure, 3 Puppet and 3M for the shortness, minors, frag in other major.

But, I really like 3 as 5-5 majors, Invitational+. This seems to solve a lot of problems with Jacoby Transfer and Stayman sequences, and it fairly easily handles that hand problem.

FWIW, the continuation, IYC:

Opener bids 3M preference with a weak hand, 4M preference with an intermediate hand (game acceptance, poor for slam), 4 for hearts or 4 for clubs with a slammish hand (flags), or possibly 3NT with a max that cannot afford to stop at 3M, 2245/2254/2236/2263.

After Opener bids 3M, Responder can raise, or bid 3NT, naturally. Other calls are step slam tries -- low stiff, high stiff, low void, high void.

After Opener bids 4M, normal continuations, major agreed.

After Opener bids a flag, re-transfers set trumps. (1NT-3-4(hearts)-4(re-transfer).) (No re-transfer = LTTC)
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#9 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2010-March-31, 13:29

kenrexford, on Mar 31 2010, 06:08 PM, said:

Rather surprised to not see what I play.

grrr
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#10 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2010-March-31, 18:44

kenrexford, on Apr 1 2010, 01:08 AM, said:

Rather surprised to not see what I play.

Very funny Ken; I am still laughing.
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