[jillybean]

RHO opens 1nt 15-17, what is partner showing?

(1nt) P (2♦) X
(2♥) P (P) 2♠
(X)

[Stephen Tu]

Most common agreement is that 2♥ after the double promises 3+ support. Doubles after a fit have been established are by default penalty. So 3 hearts, good spades, responder should act accordingly.

[jillybean]

Stephen Tu, on Mar 31 2010, 04:45 PM, said:

Most common agreement is that 2♥ after the double promises 3+ support. Doubles after a fit have been established are by default penalty. So 3 hearts, good spades, responder should act accordingly.

RHO opened 1nt, you passed, lho transfered to hearts and partner doubled the transfer and so on - what has your partner got?

[quiddity]

I assume you're asking about the partner who doubled and bid 2S. I would guess a good diamond suit (usually 5+ or a super 4) and 4+ spades. Partner doesn't need a good hand for this bid. As usual, he will strive to balance them out of their 8-card heart fit.

[the hog]

Your partner has a good hand hand with at least 5 spades. The way I play, doubling 2D does not show a D suit, (necessarily), but shows a good hand.
Playing it as just showing Ds is not sensible imo. Else how do you show a strong hand?

Your partner also does not have a takeout of H, else she would have bid 2H over the transfer.

[mikeh]

opener" 4 decent spades, 3 hearts non-minimum

Opponent bidding X then spades: probably 6 diamonds and 4 spades...could be 5-5 I guess, but partner is supposed to correct to 3♦ with equal but short support, so this is dangerous

[rogerclee]

Probably 4 spades exactly and 5+ diamonds, and consequently a pretty good hand (the more diamonds the less good his hand has to be).

Partner is unlikely to have 5+ spades, he could have bid Michaels but didn't. Then again if my partner was a B/I player he might not know that 2H in this position is Michaels, so this inference is not as strong.

[the hog]

rogerclee, on Apr 1 2010, 07:53 AM, said:

Probably 4 spades exactly and 5+ diamonds, and consequently a pretty good hand (the more diamonds the less good his hand has to be).

Partner is unlikely to have 5+ spades, he could have bid Michaels but didn't. Then again if my partner was a B/I player he might not know that 2H in this position is Michaels, so this inference is not as strong.

Michaels? I don't think so. How would you handle a 4144 good hand if not by bidding their suit. It's all well and good to say you would wait and then X 2H, but what if opener makes a S Accept? You going to X 3H?

[655321]

The_Hog, on Mar 31 2010, 07:39 PM, said:

The way I play, doubling 2D does not show a D suit, (necessarily), but shows a good hand.
Playing it as just showing Ds is not sensible imo. Else how do you show a strong hand?

I have played double showing diamonds, and I have played double as takeout of hearts (my preference), but I have never played double as general values after a strong NT opening.

You might be confusing this situation with a weak NT opening, when I agree that double showing values is normal and best.

[quiddity]

The_Hog, on Mar 31 2010, 08:18 PM, said:

Michaels? I don't think so. How would you handle a 4144 good hand if not by bidding their suit. It's all well and good to say you would wait and then X 2H, but what if opener makes a S Accept? You going to X 3H?

You're worried about missing game with a 15-17 NT sitting behind the strong hand because of a possible super-accept? Is it really worth worrying about?

[the hog]

655321, on Apr 1 2010, 08:23 AM, said:

The_Hog, on Mar 31 2010, 07:39 PM, said:

The way I play, doubling 2D does not show a D suit, (necessarily), but shows a good hand.
Playing it as just showing Ds is not sensible imo. Else how do you show a strong hand?

I have played double showing diamonds, and I have played double as takeout of hearts (my preference), but I have never played double as general values after a strong NT opening.

You might be confusing this situation with a weak NT opening, when I agree that double showing values is normal and best.

No, I have played it this way for years and this is not uncommon here.

[rogerclee]

The_Hog, on Mar 31 2010, 06:18 PM, said:

It's all well and good to say you would wait and then X 2H, but what if opener makes a S Accept? You going to X 3H?

Yes? lol

[the hog]

I agree that your "yes" comment is deserving of a lol

[aguahombre]

Mr. Hog plays 2H like we do. Roger's understanding of the OP auction is our understanding.

The Michaels thing is interesting; but I don't know which is more likely --wanting to show longer spades and an unknown minor (which we might never be able to show), or just leaving it alone as is; with the OP auction possibly having more than 4 spades.

[aguahombre]

double entry deleted

[jdonn]

Of course you play double shows something you don't particularly care about showing because of an unlikely possibility that wouldn't hurt you much anyway. What else would make any sense??

[Codo]

I have no idea what 2 ♠ shows without knowing what the double shows.
OTOH: If I would know what the double shows, I would know what 2♠ shows.

So, playing in the B/I, I would think that double showed values and 2♠ spades. Opposite an expert, I would give him 4 spades and 5+ diamonds.

Opposite my partner, I have an agreement.

[jillybean]

I was playing with an expert partner.

X is ostensibly lead directing, 2♠ now shows ♦'s and ♠'s, my partner had 6♦/5♠, I read it wrong.

[pooltuna]

jillybean, on Apr 1 2010, 07:14 AM, said:

I was playing with an expert partner.

X is ostensibly lead directing, 2♠ now shows ♦'s and ♠'s, my partner had 6♦/5♠, I read it wrong.

this seems reasonable to me. I presume a direct 2♠ by partner in an open-ended auction would show a particularly strong hand with the 2♥ qbid also fairly strong. Nevertheless the GUOG after opps have opened a strong 1NT principle probably applies so these calls need to be taken in that context.

[Jlall]

So nobody would want to bid this way with like Axxxx xx KQJx xx, doubling to get your lead in, then balancing?

Not saying that's right, just saying if I had this hand I'd sure want to bid it this way.

IMO the message of Xing 2D is mainly I want a diamond lead. After that we are showing spade length, and I don't see why that changes the first message to "diamonds is my first suit, and spades is my second suit" rather than simply "diamonds is my best suit, and I have 5 spades."